Calling All Pros out there ... 10.5* vs 12*/13* driver

I probably asked this question before... T-high of 10.5* driver versus 12*/13* and let the club face to the work?... Please share your experiences...

I played at Deerfield country club (Newark DE) today and I bagged my old 12* GBB (Sr.shaft) driver... much to my surprise I hit it to a longer spot than where I normally landed when I play my 10.5* TEE driver (R-flex Aldila NV green shaft, Maybe I should T my TEE higher?)

I am searching for either Ping 12* G25 (TFC 189 R-flex) or TaylorMade 13* JetSpeed driver (49-g R-flex shaft) , both have great reviews , I think I like the TM because of 49-g shaft vs. 57-g (?) Ping shaft

Guys/Girls/AC-DC/Caitlyn Jenner ... what do u think?
Thanks

Teeing the ball higher means making the drive even less like a normal shot.  First, it becomes a ball-above-feet lie on the only place on the golf course--the tee box--where you get a perfect lie.  It means playing the ball further to one's left and almost hitting it on the upswing where power is already beginning to dissipate.

Using more loft means you can play the shot almost like a normal fairway wood shot with a perfect, ball-sitting-up lie.  12 or 13º gives the average non-professional athlete a better chance of getting the ball to it's ideal max trajectory before it loses momentum and starts coming down.  That's why the more lofted driver hits the ball further. Lots of people hit 9º drivers, but they're playing the ball so high and left that they're hitting it on the upswing and accomplishing nothing but making the shot harder and less consistent.

The average driver loft for even a low handicap recreational player should probably be 12º.  If one balloons the ball with that loft, he's not hitting it right. Note that the strongest tournament players don't balloon the shot when they hit a three wood or hybrid from the tee.

I like the fact that they both can be adjusted by 0.5* , so 12* G25 can be 11.5*-12.5* and the Taylormade jetspeed could be 12*.5-13.5* loft... I lile the G25 better, but i like the 49-g shaft on TM... Well, i don't need it right away, in the meantime I will continue testing my old 12* GBB Sr shaft (60g)

I've gone from Titleist 10.5 and 9.5 degree drivers to a 9 degree Ping. I play the ball off or left of my left big toe and tee it up so that at least half the ball lies above the top of the driver crown. I attempt to hit the ball on the upswing and the worst that usually happens is that I catch it level. This gives me the straightest flight with the maximum carry that is least affected by head or side winds. The shaft is a made-for-Callaway Aldila RIP 60 in regular flex. Go figure why someone would put that Callaway shaft in a Ping but hey, it was very cheap on Ebay probably for that reason. With this driver, I have greater carry than any of my previous drivers in lofts of 9.5, 10.5 and 11.5 degrees. There is more roll when the fairways are dry enough for roll. And the ball speed increases as the loft decreases and increased ball speed is what I was after.

Agreed that the tee shot with driver is a unique shot in golf and, with a little work, you can develop one swing to maximize driver distance and accuracy and another swing for all the other full-swing sticks in your bag.

spent time at the range at Deerfield and hit a large bucket of ball (test new/old Cally FT 17* 4W... like it , with more practice I may replace both 3W and 5W Cally in my bag with this 4W)... anyway talked to the guy next stall who hits a long ball (250+) with his TM.... I told him about my interest in Ping G25, he advised NOT to buy it (he still has it), he said it's easy to launch but too much spin for his swing.... He told me that he hits it out there then the extra spin would lift it up then the ball would come down with little roll for about 250,,, with his TM (not JetSpeed) he could get 275-280 with roll. he recommends to go with the 49-g shaft for extra distance , 10.5* or 13* is a different story because it depends on the "angle of attack" , however in his opinion 13* would be better for my slow SS (maybe around 88?)

The slower your driver swing speed, the more important your driver's angle of attack. The bombers that swing 105-115 with driver can hit down on it with a negative angle of attack and still carry it 250-280. If you do that, you might carry it 180. Forget about lowering spin at your speed. Spin is what keeps the ball in the air. There is a chart floating all around the internet that was in a golf magazine some years ago about driver distance relationship with angle of attack. I forget the exact numbers but with a 90 mph swing speed, the difference between a negative five degree angle of attack and a five degree upwards strike is something in the range of 50 yards of carry. So if you carry a drive around 190 with a level strike, a five degree upwards drive at the same speed could carry 220-230 plus you'd get some rollout. After I read the article maybe three or four years ago, I started to experiment and found that it works like a charm but requires a big leap of faith in changing your driver setup to make it work. Once you get it dialed in, you will probably put your higher lofted drivers in the closet.

Mongrel... are u telling me NOT to go with a 12*/13* head driver?... I have shown to myself that my old 12* GBB Cally (Sr. shaft) is longer than my 10.5* TEE (Aldila R-flex)...

Two different head designs. Two different shafts. All I'm telling you is that the higher your angle of attack up to about five degrees, the farther you will hit it. And the head with the lowest loft that you can control will give you the greatest ball speed, farthest carry and most roll.

Thanks... I know I am not comparing apple-to-apple, however my gut is telling me 11-12* head would be for slower SS like me... I think even Tom Lehman who went with 11* head driver not too long ago

Several of the old guys in my club-- about my age and a little older-- had the local Golfsmith store re-shaft their drivers with Grafaloy Pro Launch Blue senior flex shafts. I played with two or them earlier this year. One guy gained a couple of yards and had a better trajectory than he had with the Taylormade shaft. The other guy who doesn't play much could barely carry a drive 175 with his old shaft and was carrying it 21-220 with his reshafted driver. Those shafts are pretty cheap. I would put one -- 55 gram, senior flex -- in your 10.5* TEE head and give it a try.

Hi all!

Interesting topic.
I'm currently playing a G15 driver @ 9* loft. I am extremely comfortable with this club. I'm averaging 225-230 yds with it, and it is a fairway finder for sure. I originally bought it because I used to balloon my drives with a 10.5* Callaway driver (reg flex).
A few weeks ago I tried a friends 910D2 12* (set at 11.25*). I proceeded to hit two of the longest drives I ever hit. Distance was closing in on around 280+.

Maybe it's true about higher loft for slower swingers. Maybe it was the shaft.

My G15 - Aldila Serrano stiff flex, 1" cut off butt end
His D2 - Aldila RIP Phenom 60 reg flex std length.

Don't know if I want to waste more $$$ chasing a few yards.

I went out to the range at Deerfield CC and hit a large bucket again.... DEFINITELY my old 12* GBB Sr-shaft was longer (>80%), mainly due to higher launch . Keep in mind that I hit both of them very well but the 10.5* TEE does not have a high launch thus shorter distance . I DID TRY to T the TEE higher but even so it still does not give give the high launch .

So, I am going to put my ego aside (because I believe in science) I am going to fleaBay a 13* TM JetSpeed driver with Sr-flex (could be adjusted to 12* as needed), this club has a 49-g shaft so I should be able to pickup > 15 yds with my new driver... and that is HUGE for me as I lose SS... If I have skills like Mongrel (I don't), I would try a Sr shaft in my current TEE which I really love (like going with a high launch AVS (?) Adila)

jmtbkr wrote:Hi all!

Interesting topic.
I'm currently playing a G15 driver @ 9* loft. I am extremely comfortable with this club. I'm averaging 225-230 yds with it, and it is a fairway finder for sure. I originally bought it because I used to balloon my drives with a 10.5* Callaway driver (reg flex).
A few weeks ago I tried a friends 910D2 12* (set at 11.25*). I proceeded to hit two of the longest drives I ever hit. Distance was closing in on around 280+.

Maybe it's true about higher loft for slower swingers. Maybe it was the shaft.

My G15  -  Aldila Serrano stiff flex, 1" cut off butt end
His D2 -  Aldila RIP Phenom 60 reg flex std length.

Don't know if I want to waste more $$$ chasing a few yards.

After doing my research last winter, I wanted to get the G15 with the Serrano stiff but all those were around $100 or more. Then I saw the 9* with the Callaway regular flex RIP 60 and bought it for a third the price. I spent an hour at the local Golf Galaxy this winter hitting a used 910D2 after the sales guy found the wrench to adjust it. I'd downloaded the 910 driver adjustment chart from the Tit website and hit a bunch of balls on every setting in one of the launch monitor booths. No matter what setting, I got worse numbers than my own 909D Comp 9.5* that I brought along for comparison. That 910D2 had some sort of Mitsubishi stiff shaft in it and felt like frozen shit. So the shaft makes a whole lot of difference and I bet that the Callaway RIP 60 I have in my G15 is pretty similar to that in your friend's D2. Before I got the G15, the DComp 9.5* was my best driver for distance but susceptible to fatal pulls. For whatever reason, the G15 has only pulled badly on me twice this season and is averaging 10-30 yards longer than the DComp. We played a course in Gettysburg, PA, twice this year. The first time I hit the par 5 fourth hole in two with a drive of about 275 and a Fli Hi Mizuno iron of around 200 yards.Last weekend we played it again and I hit the same hole in two with a G15 drive and the same hybrid from the left rough about 175 out. Prior to that first round, I had not hit a par 5 in two shots since 1990. I'm keeping that G15 and will never fool with re-shafting it.

OK Guys/Girls/AC-DC/Caitlyn Jenner

I just bit the bullet and ordered a brand new TM JetSpeed 13* 49-g Sr flex (w/ head cover and wrench). I could find a good used one for $65 but it does not come w/HC & wrench, new one on internet is $119 shipped so I decided "what the heck" . From what I know, I could adjust it from 11.5* to 14.5* loft with 0.5* increment, I will reset it to 12* and go from there. I assume the wrench is universal for all brands so it's good to have one for future use anyway... It it comes on Thursday then I have a round on Friday, will let you all know how i am making out

Pky6471 wrote:OK Guys/Girls/AC-DC/Caitlyn Jenner

I just bit the bullet and ordered a brand new TM JetSpeed 13* 49-g Sr flex (w/ head cover and wrench). I could find a good used one for $65 but it does not come w/HC & wrench, new one on internet is $119 shipped so I decided "what the heck" . From what I know, I could adjust it from 11.5* to 14.5* loft with 0.5* increment, I will reset it to 12* and go from there.  I assume the wrench is universal for all brands so it's good to have one for future use anyway... It it comes on Thursday then I have a round on Friday, will let you all know how i am making out

Wrench is not universal.

So I've learned that, at least on Titleist drivers, when you lower the loft you open the face up a degree or so. Raising the loft closes the face.

But is that relative to the grip and shaft markings? Couldn't you just set the face up at address, ignoring what the grip/shaft is doing?

(Wrench is not universal)...... Thanks , great to know... but be only within TM drivers

I played a round at Deerfield CC this morning , shot 44/43 which is very good by my standard at that difficult golf course because U would be lucky if U find 10% of your golf ball on flat lies. Again I played my 12* sr-flex 60-g GBB and it's a joy to hit that old club... My 13* TM JetSpeed will be here on Thursday... can't wt to test that 49-g sr flex shaft... Give me >15 more yds I would be very happy

jmtbkr wrote:So I've learned that, at least on Titleist drivers, when you lower the loft you open the face up a degree or so. Raising the loft closes the face.

But is that relative to the grip and shaft markings? Couldn't you just set the face up at address, ignoring what the grip/shaft is doing?

That's why I have no desire to get an adjustable driver. I would just mess with it and drive myself crazy. I love my G15 because I can just tee it up, step behind it and pick a line and a target in the distance, address the ball, and hit the fucking thing. Now that I have my eyes fixed, I can finally see the ball flight and the Ping hits it like those medium bullets you see on TV when they use the Pro Tracer.

Mongrel wrote:

jmtbkr wrote:So I've learned that, at least on Titleist drivers, when you lower the loft you open the face up a degree or so. Raising the loft closes the face.

But is that relative to the grip and shaft markings? Couldn't you just set the face up at address, ignoring what the grip/shaft is doing?

That's why I have no desire to get an adjustable driver. I would just mess with it and drive myself crazy. I love my G15 because I can just tee it up, step behind it and pick a line and a target in the distance, address the ball, and hit the fucking thing. Now that I have my eyes fixed, I can finally see the ball flight and the Ping hits it like those medium bullets you see on TV when they use the Pro Tracer.

I totally agree with you.

My G15 is a fairway finder. Plain and simple. It works for me and I'm totally one with it.

I sometimes get caught up in the latest tech, which lately says to loft up. I know how well my 3W works, but just doesn't get me the distance.

My latest focus will be in my new Scotty I just got off the bay. If it works for me...off to Scotty's custom shop

jmtbkr wrote:

Mongrel wrote:

jmtbkr wrote:So I've learned that, at least on Titleist drivers, when you lower the loft you open the face up a degree or so. Raising the loft closes the face.

But is that relative to the grip and shaft markings? Couldn't you just set the face up at address, ignoring what the grip/shaft is doing?

That's why I have no desire to get an adjustable driver. I would just mess with it and drive myself crazy. I love my G15 because I can just tee it up, step behind it and pick a line and a target in the distance, address the ball, and hit the fucking thing. Now that I have my eyes fixed, I can finally see the ball flight and the Ping hits it like those medium bullets you see on TV when they use the Pro Tracer.

I totally agree with you.

My G15 is a fairway finder. Plain and simple. It works for me and I'm totally one with it.

I sometimes get caught up in the latest tech, which lately says to loft up.  I know how well my 3W works, but just doesn't get me the distance.

My latest focus will be in my new Scotty I just got off the bay. If it works for me...off to Scotty's custom shop  

With the big bertha I picked up this spring the only thing I change is the loft depending on wind, coarse conditions etc. Just left it standard didn't mess around with opening or closing it. Did that with the Srixon Z star last year (changing settings continually). Learned my lesson.

Ever since the bike accident, my swing sucks. Lost about 10-20 yards with the woods. Favoring my right side too much hopefully by fall I can get back to form.

From what I understand, once we start the first T then it's illegal to adjust loft during a round... UNLESS you play alone and U do whatever.
I will receive my TM JetSpeed tomorrow, will spend time at range to "optimize' the trajectory and distance... then it's fixed for the next several rounds, until I have some reasons to change. I hit my 12* GBB sr-loft well now, hopefully with lighter shaft 49-g and new technology I could get another 15 yrd... will see... Getting old is a bless and I need all the help I could get

jmtbkr wrote:

Mongrel wrote:

jmtbkr wrote:So I've learned that, at least on Titleist drivers, when you lower the loft you open the face up a degree or so. Raising the loft closes the face.

But is that relative to the grip and shaft markings? Couldn't you just set the face up at address, ignoring what the grip/shaft is doing?

My latest focus will be in my new Scotty I just got off the bay. If it works for me...off to Scotty's custom shop  

I still use my first 25-yr old RAM Zebra putter and I could putt as well as any putter on the market today... My weakest link is my 2nd shot (I call it connection shots) after my Ts... that prevents me from scoring lower

============================================
Friday July 24,'15 ... The report is in....
My 13* TM JetSpeed driver came in last nite, ... This morning I took it out to the range at Deerfield CC and hit a small bucket of balls,, no problems, like it... then went on to play a round with 2 of my friends... Here is my take on this driver after one round
(1) DEFINITELY it's >15+ yds longer than my old 12* sr-flex GBB ... Funny that this flex is called "M" flex for "Mature" player ... hahahahaha... , perhaps TM tries to avoid the term "old man"
(2) what more important to me is it's very straight or "baby fades'.... I COULD NOT slice a ball .... maybe it's true what they've said all along " HL = less side spins thus straighter ball flights' ... I am a believer now, with this club
(3) even with high launch, it also gets decent roll as well
(4) I will take time and adjust it to 12* loft for testing purpose only... I am Ok with 13* loft at present

IMO, it's a JOY to hit this club... maybe because of 49-g shaft , maybe due to its 13* loft , maybe it's (M)ature flex, maybe it's 46" (1" longer than my current GBB) ... maybe a combination of all... whatever it is, I am happy and it's a keeper

Friday July 24,'15 ... The report is in....
My 13* TM JetSpeed driver came in last nite, ... This morning I took it out to the range at Deerfield CC and hit a small bucket of balls,, no problems, like it... then went on to play a round with 2 of my friends... Here is my take on this driver after one round
(1) DEFINITELY it's >15+ yds longer than my old 12* sr-flex GBB ... Funny that this flex is called "M" flex for "Mature" player ... hahahahaha... , perhaps TM tries to avoid the term "old man"
(2) what more important to me is it's very straight or "baby fades'.... I COULD NOT slice a ball .... maybe it's true what they've said all along " HL = less side spins thus straighter ball flights' ... I am a believer now, with this club
(3) even with high launch, it also gets decent roll as well
(4) I will take time and adjust it to 12* loft for testing purpose only... I am Ok with 13* loft at present

IMO, it's a JOY to hit this club... maybe because of 49-g shaft , maybe due to its 13* loft , maybe it's (M)ature flex, maybe it's 46" (1" longer than my current GBB) ... maybe a combination of all... whatever it is, I am happy and it's a keeper

I have played 5 rounds with the TM JetSpeed driver .... Nothing but fairways (at least 90+%) or light rough,,,, Not a single slice yet... Extremely happy with it
End-of-Story... Nuf said .... shot 42/43 at Deerfield today, lot of contribution from the accuracy of this driver