3W vs Driver?

people have been telling me the driver is the hardest club in the bag to hit.

I've been struggling lately with it and have gone to the 3W off the tee. According to my Garmin info, I'm averaging 242 yds with my 3W vs 249 with driver. I'm probably hitting over 90% fairways and my misses are within a few feet in the first cut off the fairway.
It's a Ping G15 w/Aldila Serrano 75 stiff shaft.
My drives are 99% lazer straight shots.

I'm very happy with it right now and will stick with it for the time being.


So....why is the driver so unpredictable and hard to hit? When I do make the mistake of taking it out on those 150yd wide fairways, I always "power fade" it towards the trees. Rarely does it go straight. Same thing at the range. Slice, slice, slice........Occasionaly I'll bang one out there 270+, but that's very rare.
Bigger head should be easier to hit straight.
Longer shaft...easier to swing (?)

I dunno.

So i'm sticking with my 3W.

Modern drivers with bigger heads give guys the confidence to go ahead and smash it every time. Of course even the pros go wayward swinging their drivers like that. Plus not many actually consider that their driver shafts may be longer than they can handle and buy into the pap spewed forth by the club manufacturers that their new drivers are longer than all the others. Of course that's because they have shafts that weigh less than 50 grams and the standard length is 46, 46'5". Now from a purely technical perspective, a shaft that long and light is going to be a real twisty dude with torque upside of 4 degrees. What this means to your average weekend warrior is that his drive must be perfectly timed or the ball is going hard right or hard left more than fifty per cent of the time. So comes the miracle of the three wood. Its shaft is shorter averaging 43-43.5 inches and weighs a bit more. Say in the 60-70 gram range. Thus it is possible to fit a shaft with less torque. Coupled with the shorter length, the typical player will be more accurate with it off the tee.

As for me, I hate 3 woods and have a bunch of them. Enough to spread the hate around to all of them. I tee off every two and three shot hole with driver which I've set up to play around 44". If I need to take a few yards off it, I will just tee it up lower and hit a cut.

Mongrel wrote:Modern drivers with bigger heads give guys the confidence to go ahead and smash it every time. Of course even the pros go wayward swinging their drivers like that. Plus not many actually consider that their driver shafts may be longer than they can handle and buy into the pap spewed forth by the club manufacturers that their new drivers are longer than all the others. Of course that's because they have shafts that weigh less than 50 grams and the standard length is 46, 46'5". Now from a purely technical perspective, a shaft that long and light is going to be a real twisty dude with torque upside of 4 degrees. What this means to your average weekend warrior is that his drive must be perfectly timed or the ball is going hard right or hard left more than fifty per cent of the time. So comes the miracle of the three wood. Its shaft is shorter averaging 43-43.5 inches and weighs a bit more. Say in the 60-70 gram range. Thus it is possible to fit a shaft with less torque. Coupled with the shorter length, the typical player will be more accurate with it off the tee.

As for me, I hate 3 woods and have a bunch of them. Enough to spread the hate around to all of them. I tee off every two and three shot hole with driver which I've set up to play around 44". If I need to take a few yards off it, I will just tee it up lower and hit a cut.

I agree with the explanation about the longer shafts. Today's driver are 460cc and 45.5 to 46 inches long. They have not made the game easier, except for good players and pros. Today's 3 woods are as big, if not bigger, than the old big bertha steel driver and just as long. I just purchased a Great Big Bertha II 3 wood the other day for $9.99 and plan on playing it for awhile. On the simulator I was hitting it 240 to 250 yards. That's almost as long as my driver but more accurate. I'm tempted to try the new Callaway X Hot 3-deep 3 wood.

Mongrel wrote:Modern drivers with bigger heads give guys the confidence to go ahead and smash it every time. Of course even the pros go wayward swinging their drivers like that. Plus not many actually consider that their driver shafts may be longer than they can handle and buy into the pap spewed forth by the club manufacturers that their new drivers are longer than all the others. Of course that's because they have shafts that weigh less than 50 grams and the standard length is 46, 46'5". Now from a purely technical perspective, a shaft that long and light is going to be a real twisty dude with torque upside of 4 degrees. What this means to your average weekend warrior is that his drive must be perfectly timed or the ball is going hard right or hard left more than fifty per cent of the time. So comes the miracle of the three wood. Its shaft is shorter averaging 43-43.5 inches and weighs a bit more. Say in the 60-70 gram range. Thus it is possible to fit a shaft with less torque. Coupled with the shorter length, the typical player will be more accurate with it off the tee.

As for me, I hate 3 woods and have a bunch of them. Enough to spread the hate around to all of them. I tee off every two and three shot hole with driver which I've set up to play around 44". If I need to take a few yards off it, I will just tee it up lower and hit a cut.

Thinking over this.
3 thoughts.
1. Cut an inch or two off my extra drivers' butt end and try it.
2. Use the same shaftfrom the 3W in my driver.
3. Continue using 3W and take a lesson.

The biggest club in the bag IS THE EASIEST TO HIT.....

The only differences are they are normally not setup for our individual swings!!!!

jmtbkr wrote:

Mongrel wrote:Modern drivers with bigger heads give guys the confidence to go ahead and smash it every time. Of course even the pros go wayward swinging their drivers like that. Plus not many actually consider that their driver shafts may be longer than they can handle and buy into the pap spewed forth by the club manufacturers that their new drivers are longer than all the others. Of course that's because they have shafts that weigh less than 50 grams and the standard length is 46, 46'5". Now from a purely technical perspective, a shaft that long and light is going to be a real twisty dude with torque upside of 4 degrees. What this means to your average weekend warrior is that his drive must be perfectly timed or the ball is going hard right or hard left more than fifty per cent of the time. So comes the miracle of the three wood. Its shaft is shorter averaging 43-43.5 inches and weighs a bit more. Say in the 60-70 gram range. Thus it is possible to fit a shaft with less torque. Coupled with the shorter length, the typical player will be more accurate with it off the tee.

As for me, I hate 3 woods and have a bunch of them. Enough to spread the hate around to all of them. I tee off every two and three shot hole with driver which I've set up to play around 44". If I need to take a few yards off it, I will just tee it up lower and hit a cut.

Thinking over this.
3 thoughts.
1. Cut an inch or two off my extra drivers' butt end and try it.
2. Use the same shaftfrom the 3W in my driver.
3. Continue using 3W and take a lesson.

#3 is the b*llshit option. #2 might work except that fairway shafts area typically a bit heavier--maybe 10 grams or so -- than their driver equivalents. And three wood heads are typically heavier than driver heads--anywhere from 10 to 20 grams in my experience. #1 might work except that when you shorten a shaft from either the butt end or the tip, you will make the club swing lighter and slightly stiffer. Of course, cutting the shaft tip and re-installing it ("tipping") makes it play a good bit stiffer than lopping off some of its butt.

Of course driver shaft selection is a complicated matter. As Fluffy states, the big stick is the easiest to hit in the bag. However, each of us has optimum shaft weight, length and flex characteristics for a given driver head. Instead of paying some mutt for lessons, why not go to a store with all the electronic goodies and get yourself fit for a driver shaft. I did it at the local Golf Galaxy several years ago right when I decided to start trying to play golf regularly again after two decades of layoff. It cost me about $30 and involved hitting lots of shots with the then current Titleist driver head that had a quick-change hosel and maybe ten or more different shafts that were on the Titleist list in different flexes and lengths. Although I lost the printout, I remember some of the numbers and that the best shaft by the carry and launch angle numbers was a regular flex one-half inch short of the 45" standard. Soon after, I started learning how to re-shaft clubs and have experimented a whole bunch on driver shafts. It helps that I have a golf supplies store nearby that sells shaft pulls for $15 a piece regardless of the maker.

In summary, there's no reason why your driver can't be the straightest and longest club in your bag. I've dialed mine in to be that very thing. But I'm always looking for more.

My driver is definitely longer than my 3W... and I hit my 3W well. I've been playing with 9.5* Cleveland 460cc Ti Launcher, it helps bring its trajectory down compared to other 10.5* driver that I have. I remember big Dave who told us about his Cleveland HiBore XLS series, I've tried 3H, then 2H and now bought 4H, I love them all because they offer the best trajectory for my lousy swing, I like them so much I eBayed a XLS driver as well, should have it on hand this weekend for a test drive at a local range.
Last weekend I played at Inniscrone with my coworker. They teamed us up with 2 young guns, one at 275 range and one at 300+ range with his driver... I have not run into someone who could hit a ball long and fairly straight like this guy, his drives were 50%+ on fairways, his seconds prevented him from scoring well.

Mongrel... Try this course with your gang
http://www.inniscronegolfclub.com/

I think there's a few things that make the driver harder to hit, while length may be a factor I don't think it's the main factor.

Bigger heads with similar weights are harder to square... Drivers have gotten bigger, and hollower with more weight being pushed to the extreme edges. The nature of the weight distribution helps contact forgiveness but doesn't do much for squaring or "slotting" with regards to feeling the head pull into you're swing path.

Heads have also gotten lighter with the theory that faster speeds mean higher ballspeeds, that's not really the case.

I predicted last year on GR that we would start seeing smaller driver heads make a comeback, with good players at least.

I currently game a 430cc VR Tour at 204 grams, 440cc VR Limited at 204 grams, and just ordered a 440cc Razr Extreme weighted over 200g that I will adjust to 204g.... My driving is much more consistent with smaller heavier heads... I still have my Geek No Brainer head that I'll probably throw into a shaft and give another chance as well.

The lighter, and bigger the driver head the more aggressive and precise you must be with the contact portion of you're swing, especially if you're more arms and hands.

3 woods are smaller, heavier, and have the weight much more centrally located which = easier to square, more forgiving release wise, and that central weighting will pull you into you're swing path... I have noticed a big trend of better players hitting straightish drives but suffering from hitting big hooks with their 3 woods and hybrids... It's not that the 3 woods are draw biased, they're using open faced players 3 woods, it's because of the size and weighting of the heads with less mass being behind the center in the drivers encourage early and aggressive releases in order to get that big light head squared at impact, especially in the more upright swingers.

FD hopefully I'll have my 3 deep 13 degree in a day or 2, I'll let you know if it's everything it's made out to be.

Hubijerk wrote:I think there's a few things that make the driver harder to hit, while length may be a factor I don't think it's the main factor.

Bigger heads with similar weights are harder to square...  Drivers have gotten bigger, and hollower with more weight being pushed to the extreme edges.  The nature of the weight distribution helps contact forgiveness but doesn't do much for squaring or "slotting" with regards to feeling the head pull into you're swing path.  

Heads have also gotten lighter with the theory that faster speeds mean higher ballspeeds, that's not really the case.

I predicted last year on GR that we would start seeing smaller driver heads make a comeback, with good players at least.

I currently game a 430cc VR Tour at 204 grams, 440cc VR Limited at 204 grams, and just ordered a 440cc Razr Extreme weighted over 200g that I will adjust to 204g....  My driving is much more consistent with smaller heavier heads... I still have my Geek No Brainer head that I'll probably throw into a shaft and give another chance as well.

The lighter, and bigger the driver head the more aggressive and precise you must be with the contact portion of you're swing, especially if you're more arms and hands.  

3 woods are smaller, heavier, and have the weight much more centrally located which = easier to square, more forgiving release wise, and that central weighting will pull you into you're swing path...  I have noticed a big trend of better players hitting straightish drives but suffering from hitting big hooks with their 3 woods and hybrids...  It's not that the 3 woods are draw biased, they're using open faced players 3 woods, it's because of the size and weighting of the heads with less mass being behind the center in the drivers encourage early and aggressive releases in order to get that big light head squared at impact, especially in the more upright swingers.

FD hopefully I'll have my 3 deep 13 degree in a day or 2, I'll let you know if it's everything it's made out to be.

I'm very interested to hear how you hit the 3 Deep. I looked at the 14.5 degree X-Hot model 3 Deep in the pro shop and I like the way it looks. To me, though, I didn't like how high-lofted the 14.5 degree looked at address and, like you, would most likely opt for the 13 degree. I'm pretty sure my Steelhead 3+ is 13 degrees.

I REALLY like the X-Hot Pro 8.5 Driver. It's got a great looking pear-shaped head.

Avoid courses over 6300 yard yards and you won't need to carry a driver. I used to carry one primarily for a single hole where I could hit a banana ball around a dogleg with trees too tall to go over. Often it worked. Other times I would tee it up again and hit three with the same attempted shot. If I had to tee it up again and hit five, I'd finally take out a sensible club, hit to the dogleg, and see if I could escape with an eight instead of a nine or ten on a birdie hole par 5.

I hate the 460cc driver. Just hate it, but to each his own.

trombettista_vecchio wrote:Avoid courses over 6300 yard yards and you won't need to carry a driver.  I used to carry one primarily for a single hole where I could hit a banana ball around a dogleg with trees too tall to go over.  Often it worked. Other times I would tee it up again and hit three with the same attempted shot.  If I had to tee it up again and hit five, I'd finally take out a sensible club, hit to the dogleg, and see if I could escape with an eight instead of a nine or ten on a birdie hole par 5.  

I hate the 460cc driver. Just hate it, but to each his own.  

If our 3W is consistently at 250 +/-, then we may not need a driver... more often than not, our ego is in the way