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Lorenzzo
Poe4soul
Horseballs
Mongrel
Pky6471
Hubijerk
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    My quest for new irons

    Hubijerk
    Hubijerk


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    Post  Hubijerk Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:06 pm

    So, over the last few months I've embarked on a major swing rebuild, going from a more hybrid type swing to a pure Jim Hardy 1 plane.  Less Tiger, more Byrd, Mahan and Rose.  So far my body is loving it and I've picked up a lot of distance in the lofted clubs and while I may have lost a touch of upper end distance with the D1 I'm hitting everything else farther and more accurately, and lower.  I've gone from hitting fades to mostly draws with my misses being substantial hooks.  My AP2's have turned into hook machines and the x100 tours are proving to be too flat a trajectory with the new swing.  So after much toiling I think I've settled on MP-69's w/ KBS Tour x's.  I tried to like the MP-64's but the weighting of the head just doesn't agree with me.  The weighting of the blades was so natural that I had to work really hard to mishit it, and even then the distance loss was really not much worse than my AP2's. 

    Thin strikes with the 69's were more than serviceable and there seems to be some weighting toe side which helps me from slamming the door when I get loose, and allowing me to hit baby fades again.  Mizuno's are traditionally flat when compared to other lie angles from companies so surprisingly at 5'11 and a bent over stance I'm 2 degrees upright per mizzy standard and impact is perfect, ball flight is higher but boring.

    The real standouts are the KBS shafts, frankly they made my x-100s feel terrible, the project x felt like a steel rod in comparison, and the kick point seemed to work much better for my new angles.

    My only hesitation is that I can get a set of scratch 3-pw w/kbs tours for just 200$ more... Unfortunately I have no way to hit them.

    97.5% will be pulling the trigger on the mizzy's, but I'm having just a bit of second thought regarding the Scratch's.
    Pky6471
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    Post  Pky6471 Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:31 am

    Hubijerk wrote:So, over the last few months I've embarked on a major swing rebuild, going from a more hybrid type swing to a pure Jim Hardy 1 plane.  Less Tiger, more Byrd, Mahan and Rose.  So far my body is loving it and I've picked up a lot of distance in the lofted clubs and while I may have lost a touch of upper end distance with the D1 I'm hitting everything else farther and more accurately, and lower.  I've gone from hitting fades to mostly draws with my misses being substantial hooks.  My AP2's have turned into hook machines and the x100 tours are proving to be too flat a trajectory with the new swing.  So after much toiling I think I've settled on MP-69's w/ KBS Tour x's.  I tried to like the MP-64's but the weighting of the head just doesn't agree with me.  The weighting of the blades was so natural that I had to work really hard to mishit it, and even then the distance loss was really not much worse than my AP2's. 

    Thin strikes with the 69's were more than serviceable and there seems to be some weighting toe side which helps me from slamming the door when I get loose, and allowing me to hit baby fades again.  Mizuno's are traditionally flat when compared to other lie angles from companies so surprisingly at 5'11 and a bent over stance I'm 2 degrees upright per mizzy standard and impact is perfect, ball flight is higher but boring.

    The real standouts are the KBS shafts, frankly they made my x-100s feel terrible, the project x felt like a steel rod in comparison, and the kick point seemed to work much better for my new angles.

    My only hesitation is that I can get a set of scratch 3-pw w/kbs tours for just 200$ more... Unfortunately I have no way to hit them.

    97.5% will be pulling the trigger on the mizzy's, but I'm having just a bit of second thought regarding the Scratch's.

    ========================================================================================================================================

    I believe that the correct clubs would help some, but in the end it's still the Indian not arrow. After we are comfortable the new toys, the old swing still controls everything.  I still hit my old 9.5* Cleveland Launch 460cc Ti driver as well as any new driver on market today... only if I could hit my irons better.  My scoring clubs are 7i to LW, the rest are "connecting" clubs and I am proud of carrying a driver, 15* 3W, 18* 5W, and 19*22*25* gaybrids.  I don't worry how well I score but how much fun I have being out there
    Hubijerk
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    Post  Hubijerk Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:15 am

    Yes, but some indians like a 70lb draw and some like an 80lb draw....  I'm at the point where I don't need the clubhead to do anything extra, just what I give it.  The shafts however, and the way they kick into impact make a huge difference as I've found... I'm starting to get more involved with the trackman data and while the differences in flight and spin are slight between the x100 and kbs, I think the kbs has a bit steeper kick that counteracts my new tendency of getting into the ball too flat, it gives me just a bit more downward snap into impact, feels more repeatable and stable.  At the very least it will make my range time more enjoyable.
    Mongrel
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    Post  Mongrel Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:28 am

    It may be the Indian and not the arrow but the Indians who lived the longest always tweaked their bows for best performance. Whatever works most reliably is your set of sticks. Sometimes it just takes a real long time to put the kit together. I recall reading somewhere that Luke Donald, a relatively short guy, plays his irons several degrees upright. Enjoy.
    Horseballs
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    Post  Horseballs Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:13 am

    Hubi, I hope you're sure about those KBS shafts.  They are the sweetest feeling shafts in the world... that are noodles (even in X), that hit the ball high and spinny, that give wild variances in distance control.  Maybe it's because I have a fast tempo, but those KBS shafts were an absolute nightmare.
    Poe4soul
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    Post  Poe4soul Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 am

    It must be you HB.  there are many, many players using them on tour.  I recall seeing the logo on Phils shafts and he hits the hell out of his irons.
    Horseballs
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    Post  Horseballs Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:57 am

    Poe4soul wrote:It must be you HB.  there are many, many players using them on tour.  I recall seeing the logo on Phils shafts and he hits the hell out of his irons.



    Nice quote feature, FD. 

    That explains why Phil's distance control with wedges was so terrible.  He plays PX, he wins the US Open going away. 
    Poe4soul
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    Post  Poe4soul Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:05 am

    Hubijerk wrote:So, over the last few months I've embarked on a major swing rebuild, going from a more hybrid type swing to a pure Jim Hardy 1 plane.  Less Tiger, more Byrd, Mahan and Rose.  So far my body is loving it and I've picked up a lot of distance in the lofted clubs and while I may have lost a touch of upper end distance with the D1 I'm hitting everything else farther and more accurately, and lower.  I've gone from hitting fades to mostly draws with my misses being substantial hooks.  My AP2's have turned into hook machines and the x100 tours are proving to be too flat a trajectory with the new swing.  So after much toiling I think I've settled on MP-69's w/ KBS Tour x's.  I tried to like the MP-64's but the weighting of the head just doesn't agree with me.  The weighting of the blades was so natural that I had to work really hard to mishit it, and even then the distance loss was really not much worse than my AP2's. 

    Thin strikes with the 69's were more than serviceable and there seems to be some weighting toe side which helps me from slamming the door when I get loose, and allowing me to hit baby fades again.  Mizuno's are traditionally flat when compared to other lie angles from companies so surprisingly at 5'11 and a bent over stance I'm 2 degrees upright per mizzy standard and impact is perfect, ball flight is higher but boring.

    The real standouts are the KBS shafts, frankly they made my x-100s feel terrible, the project x felt like a steel rod in comparison, and the kick point seemed to work much better for my new angles.

    My only hesitation is that I can get a set of scratch 3-pw w/kbs tours for just 200$ more... Unfortunately I have no way to hit them.

    97.5% will be pulling the trigger on the mizzy's, but I'm having just a bit of second thought regarding the Scratch's.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    It's interesting that you are flat.  Byrd's swing is more 1 plane, while Maham and Rose are both Foley's students and is a single pivot swing, AKA Stack and Tilt, which should be steeper than a traditional 1 plane or even a 2 plane swing...

    Which set of scratch irons, what stiffness?  Sounds like xstiff in the KBS may not be stiff enough.  They do play softer that the DG shafts. 
    Poe4soul
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    Post  Poe4soul Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:32 am

    Horseballs wrote:
    Poe4soul wrote:It must be you HB.  there are many, many players using them on tour.  I recall seeing the logo on Phils shafts and he hits the hell out of his irons.



    Nice quote feature, FD. 

    That explains why Phil's distance control with wedges was so terrible.  He plays PX, he wins the US Open going away. 

    Ouch! that hurt. 

    Phil's a gack coming in.  Always has been, always will.  I like the PX shafts and I could see if you have a quick transition they would be better.  For me, the PX shafts actually made me quicker at the top because I had a hard time feeling them load.  Great ball flight though but I do better with the KBS than the PX. 
    Lorenzzo
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    Post  Lorenzzo Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:10 pm

    KBS shafts penalize those flipping at impact or releasing early which is why pros tend to get lower ball flights with them than amateurs.
    Hubijerk
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    Post  Hubijerk Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:45 pm

    Poe, Scratch SB1's w/KB X's. 

    I've heard that the KBS shafts feel whippy, but I honestly didn't get that.  They def. felt livelier but I didn't find them to be noodles.  The PX 6.5's felt much stiffer than my x100's even, and reading that Rory plays 7.0 is just insane. 

    The KBS actually gave me the most consistent numbers and impact conditions.  While my normal shot with the KBS was higher with more spin than the x100's, I had no problem keeping the ball down when needed.

    If I'm wrong I'll just re shaft them, not a huge deal.  I think that the KBS are way more active through the impact zone but if they were noodles as many claim then my impact would have been more inconsistent.  My club and ball speeds were more consistent and faster with the KBS while dispersion was much much tighter.

    My hands tell me the KBS were softish, the launch data told a much different story.
    Poe4soul
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    Post  Poe4soul Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:07 pm

    Hubijerk wrote:Poe, Scratch SB1's w/KB X's. 

    I've heard that the KBS shafts feel whippy, but I honestly didn't get that.  They def. felt livelier but I didn't find them to be noodles.  The PX 6.5's felt much stiffer than my x100's even, and reading that Rory plays 7.0 is just insane. 

    The KBS actually gave me the most consistent numbers and impact conditions.  While my normal shot with the KBS was higher with more spin than the x100's, I had no problem keeping the ball down when needed.

    If I'm wrong I'll just re shaft them, not a huge deal.  I think that the KBS are way more active through the impact zone but if they were noodles as many claim then my impact would have been more inconsistent.  My club and ball speeds were more consistent and faster with the KBS while dispersion was much much tighter.

    My hands tell me the KBS were softish, the launch data told a much different story.

    ================================================

    Sounds like you are convinced.  WTF?  It's only $200 and you can always sell them if you don't like them. .  

    It would seem that rory isn't too pleased with his clubs the way he bent one after a bad approach shot in the last round of the US Open.  


    rooteen
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    Post  rooteen Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:41 am

    Mate of mine who was playing mp64's 1 degree flat, was recently fitted for some ap2's  and they were 2 degrees upright. The upright lie angle was needed for the way the club reacted at impact, something to do with how the shaft bends or flexes down (if looking from down the line). He is about 5 foot 7 on a good day. All his other irons he had ordered based on static measurements.
    Hubijerk
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    Post  Hubijerk Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:00 am

    rooteen wrote:Mate of mine who was playing mp64's 1 degree flat, was recently fitted for some ap2's  and they were 2 degrees upright. The upright lie angle was needed for the way the club reacted at impact, something to do with how the shaft bends or flexes down (if looking from down the line). He is about 5 foot 7 on a good day. All his other irons he had ordered based on static measurements.


    This is true, at full speed, at impact the shaft flex/kick will flatten the head...  The amount of flattening depends on swing speed, lag,kick of the shaft, club head weight and where the weight is located, etc...  I never used to pay much attention to all this stuff, but staying competitive now requires it.  I felt I had to change my swing, and I most likely will tweak it again once I get totally comfortable with the new positions. 

    Once I get the irons sorted out I have to get to work on the wedges, because my swing changes have trickled down into my wedge game.  I'll be bending and grinding till I get those things perfect.  I've lost some short game precision since I've started working on the full swing, I was much more army and handsy and I'm going to have to put a lot of time in to get my short game back to satisfactory.  The grind on my Vokey lob wedge just isn't as precise as I need it to be off of the super tight lies I now find myself having to play from.  I have some ideas, and I'll be experimenting with a Mizzy r12 lob head... I don't need as much precision with the 54 degree but I want my lob wedge perfect, I want to be able to perform surgery with that b*tch.


    By the way, going from 64's to AP2's... I might have gone a different way... if he's 2 degrees up in the titty's he should probably be 3 up in the mizzy's.  As I said above too I think the 64's could use a bit more toe weight.  If I were him I might have played with the angles and weight on the 64's a bit before jumping to the AP2's. 
    rooteen
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    Post  rooteen Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:51 am

    Hubijerk wrote:

    This is true, at full speed, at impact the shaft flex/kick will flatten the head...  The amount of flattening depends on swing speed, lag,kick of the shaft, club head weight and where the weight is located, etc...  I never used to pay much attention to all this stuff, but staying competitive now requires it.  I felt I had to change my swing, and I most likely will tweak it again once I get totally comfortable with the new positions. 
    Ever done a swing analysis with the Mizuno gadget that fits on the shaft and measures all that stuff?
    Horseballs
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    Post  Horseballs Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:13 am

    rooteen wrote:
    Hubijerk wrote:

    This is true, at full speed, at impact the shaft flex/kick will flatten the head...  The amount of flattening depends on swing speed, lag,kick of the shaft, club head weight and where the weight is located, etc...  I never used to pay much attention to all this stuff, but staying competitive now requires it.  I felt I had to change my swing, and I most likely will tweak it again once I get totally comfortable with the new positions. 
    Ever done a swing analysis with the Mizuno gadget that fits on the shaft and measures all that stuff?

    I've done it.  Seems a bit like junk science, or even just stating the obvious.  I suppose if you have absolutely no clue what you need, it may be a good place to start by narrowing the list down.  But the progression should be trackman followed by hitting balls outside to see the flight.
    Mongrel
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    Post  Mongrel Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:54 am

    rooteen wrote:
    Hubijerk wrote:

    This is true, at full speed, at impact the shaft flex/kick will flatten the head...  The amount of flattening depends on swing speed, lag,kick of the shaft, club head weight and where the weight is located, etc...  I never used to pay much attention to all this stuff, but staying competitive now requires it.  I felt I had to change my swing, and I most likely will tweak it again once I get totally comfortable with the new positions. 
    Ever done a swing analysis with the Mizuno gadget that fits on the shaft and measures all that stuff?
    Two months ago I went into the local Golf Galaxy to look at the used clubs and they had one of those Mizuno swing DNA gadget clubs sitting in a barrell in one of the hitting stations. So since no one was around, I picked it up and figured out how to use it after several minutes. I must have hit 20 balls with that 6 iron and my profile turned out to be a consistent 4-5-5-7 with speed averaging 84-85. Not bad for a 66 year old geezer not warmed up and hitting off hated mats. Now there was no apparent hookup to anything that would tell me what shafts would be ideal for those numbers but I sort of figured out that maybe I could shafts other than regular flex in ultra-light weights. This has proved out with the latest used set of Mizuno MX 25's I just acquired fitted with Dynalite Gold XP S300 shafts. Played a round with them last week and hit some decent to excellent shots with them including some 5 irons which is unusual for me. My next tinkering project will be to pull all those shafts and double soft-step them and I think they will be just about perfect.
    Hubijerk
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    Post  Hubijerk Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:55 am

    Havn't really tinkered with that thing, seems hokey to me...  HB is right in that ball flight is really what you're after with the shafts.. while it is possible to get a shaft that's way too whippy, or way too stiff, most of it is somewhere in the middle... I could play with anything from s300-xx+, maybe even r300..  but the type of flight I'm after dictates only a few options.  While the mizuno shaft thingy will probably put you into the stiffest shaft that you can load, that's not the whole story.  

    In some ways I think fitting is overrated, courses are never flat, swings vary in lengths and speeds from shot to shot with the same club..  really what you're fitting is you're misses, because you're pure strikes will be pure inside of a fairly large range of loft, lie, flex combinations.  

    Even when i pour over the launch, height, spin, etc.. numbers the differences between my current AP2's, MP-69's, 64's, and the 69's and 64's in 2 degrees upright were very very similar, even though I had different shaft and head combo's.  Honestly I could play with any combo and really not miss a beat. 

    Most players, and I'm not trying to put anyone down or anything, never get to the point where such fine tuning will be of usefulness.  I'm just starting to explore how much benefit this could be, but I'm still a bit skeptical.  I mean were talking about a few feet in height and a hundred or two difference in rpm's per club, all coming from a fraction of an inch/degree difference at impact.  

    It all seems kind of ridiculous to be pouring over the science this much considering that this stupid game was invented by a bunch of drunk sheep herders who had nothing better to do then hit rocks at eachother with sticks..
    Mongrel
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    Post  Mongrel Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:56 pm

    I don't give a sh*t about irons' launch angle, spin, ball speed and any other numbers capable of being generated by various and sundry swing analysis software. All I care about is that when I get to my ball and estimate the distance and type of shot needed, that I can pull what I think is the best iron for the job, go through my five second pre-shot routine, address the ball, take it back and come through with the ball flying and landing somewhere near where I wanted it to end up. So I am about a total feel player and if an iron head has the right sole grind, not so high COG, and near enough lie angle I will probably hit an OK shot provided the shaft weight and flex isn't too heavy and stiff or too light and flexible. 

    And there's no substitute for turf trials on those damn things.
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    Post  Hubijerk Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:19 am

    Final decision:

    MP-69 3-pw KBS Tour x 1 degree up std. length and lie

    T4 54-09 KBS Tour s

    R12 60-05 KBS Hi Rev s

    wedges at 64 degree lie angles.

    This put's me even or .5 of Ttleist standard for every club. 


    Can't wait to take these out for a rip, should be here in a week to 10 or so.
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    Post  Hubijerk Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:46 pm

    So Total set will be
    D1:
    Nike VR tour 8.5
    Nike Tour LE 8.5

    Both 204 g heads 2 degrees open, both with House Of Forged Daly 70g Whiteout shafts at 285 cpms at 45". Rotate depending on needs, both look almost identical at address and have same swing weights.
    VR Tour COG more forward, lower launch, higher spin, more workable.  LE more forgiving, low spin, very straight driver, probably a touch more carry and more roll.

    3 15 degree:

    Adams F11 Ti House Of Forged 80g Patriot 285 cpm's

    MP-69 3-pw KBS Tour x ( approx 270 cpm's)

    T4 54-09 KBS Tour s

    R12 60-05 KBS Hi Rev s

    Nike Method Midnight Anser style 34" 6g lead tape to sole= 348g head.
    (Heading to see Byron Morgan in Huntington Beach in August, I can't imagine I'll leave without ordering a new toy)
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    Post  Hubijerk Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:14 pm

    Got em, will post a full review after a few more rounds, played a really fast 18 today early, no practice balls (the first ball I hit with these sure as hell wasn't going to be a range ball), my initial reaction is that the 69's with the kbs fly higher, and about 1/2 club longer than my AP2's with x100 tours (same lengths). The KBS seems sronger into the wind. The 69's are far more accurate than the AP2's, I havn't had so many short birdie putts in a long time (and this is playing with these right out of the Box)

    As far as the wedges, the t4 and the r12 outclass my vokey's in every conceivable way, Mizuno couldn't get the hi rev shaft so they soft stepped an 8iron shaft twice in the lobber AKA "tiger stepping" And it spins like a rat b*stard.

    only reason why I didn't have the best round of the season today was because I lipped out a pile of short birdie putts.

    And yeah, these 69's are plenty forgiving, especially on thin strikes, I stand by my assertion that there's no real difference for me anyway in forgiveness between the 64's and these.

    Feel wasn't as soft as my old mp-33's, but way better than the AP2's obviously.

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    Post  Mongrel Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:52 am

    The gap wedge currently in my bag is an MP 14 pitching wedge of 50 degrees in which I put a True Temper GS 95 regular flex 6 iron shaft butt-cut to play 35.5". So its soft-stepped four times. It is a sweet feeling club and fits the gap perfectly between 46* PW and 54* MP-R.
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    My quest for new irons Empty Cobra S3 Pro Forged irons

    Post  FamousDavis Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:28 pm

    I had never seen these in person before yesterday.  I stopped by Golf Mart on the way to the fair and there was a set of S3 Pro Forged irons, 3-PW, DGS300 in great condition for $199.  I ended up buying them for $169 and they had the matching GW for $24.99.   What a sweet looking a set of irons!   The set I got is the combo with 3-6 cavity back and 7-PW muscle back.  

    Some other recent ho'ing:  

    Taylormade Tourismo center shafted putter. Very rare and very deadly when in the hands of FD.

    Titleist 910 D3 8.5 driver with Aldila RIP Alpha "red eyes" shaft.  This thing is demonic looking.  The feeling at impact is unlike any other driver I've ever tried.  Very soft feeling and a bit muted.  If the simulator is any indication I can't wait to tee it up tomorrow.  I was landing it on the 250 and getting another 20 of roll.  That's long for me.  

    Ping Rapture V2 irons.  The plan is to resell them but I'll give them a go for a round or two.  

    My quest for new irons <a href=My quest for new irons Z_s3_p10" />
    My quest for new irons <a href=My quest for new irons Z_tour10" />
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    Post  Hubijerk Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:28 pm

    Those Cobra's are fantastic irons, center shafted putters have never been my style, in fact except for a brief stint in college with a Nike Oz bendy shaft spaceship looking mallet that made everything I looked at for a time I've never used anything but Anser style putters.  

    Played a few more with the 69's, they may actually be closer to a full club longer, I found myself on the back of a few greens and it's unusual for me to be much past the hole.  One approach in particular had me sitting 180 to the center, pin in front left at about 172 into a slight wind and uphill a bit.  This is a shot I am familiar with, it was an easy draw with a 7 iron with my AP2's which would leave me about 5-10 feet past the hole.  I hit the same shot, find the ball sitting on the back edge with the pitch mark 1-2 yards short of where it finished.  So I flew the 7 around 190 uphill into the wind which is stupid.  

    The ballflight of the KBS is way different than the x100, where as the x100 starts lower and climbs steadily and then seemingly drops almost straight down from it's apex, the KBS gets up fast, then drives forward descending  while still carrying some forward momentum, based on where my balls ended up in relation to the pitch marks it seems as though I'm carrying less spin which would explain the distance jump (and the mizzy's are about 1 degree stronger than my titty's but I think it's more shaft than anything)

    Thin shots lose very little, heel shots lose very little, toe shots lose way less then any other blade I've ever hit.  The 3 iron is an absolute laser guided missile launcher if you have the hooch for it.  I had 240 to the flag on a par 5 and landed the 3  pretty much exactly where I was looking at on the front fringe leaving me an easy 15ft eagle putt that I of course blew... Can't wait to hit me some stingers with this b*tch, should be able to get them to roll for miles.

    The double soft stepped r12 60* throws darts, way way way more spin then the normal stiff shafted KBS tour that's in the sand wedge, which is fine, but the double soft step does make a huge difference, especially on short chips and pitches.

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      Current date/time is Mon Mar 18, 2024 10:36 pm