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    WTF is the matter with people

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    Lord Helmet

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    Join date : 2012-12-12

    WTF is the matter with people

    Post  Lord Helmet on Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:31 am

    I get an email and urgent call from my credit card company. They ask me if I authorized and/or spent $800 at walmart.com

    No I did not buy anything at walmart.com so someone stole my info....

    I have fraud protection on my card - so Im not paying for this. But what a hassle.

    What makes people do this s.hit?
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    Mongrel

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    Re: WTF is the matter with people

    Post  Mongrel on Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:53 am

    Its like free money. Except that the plastic robbers are several steps up the food chain from the waste-of-tissue that boosts cars for stereos and burgles dwellings for silver. It would help if every merchant would be required to check a photo ID when a card is used. I would imagine that Julio Lopez or Trayvon Washington Jefferson did not have a photo ID that would resemble Lord Helmet to any degree other than being the same species of mammal.
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    jmtbkr

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    Re: WTF is the matter with people

    Post  jmtbkr on Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:03 pm

    Lord Helmet wrote:I get an email and urgent call from my credit card company. They ask me if I authorized and/or spent $800 at walmart.com

    No I did not buy anything at walmart.com so someone stole my info....

    I have fraud protection on my card - so Im not paying for this. But what a hassle.

    What makes people do this s.hit?

    I had the same thing last month. My credit card company took the charges off and now Wallmart is on the hook for $2700. To f*cken bad for them. It seems to be happening alot thru internet sales at Wallmart. I have no sympathy for them. What does it amout to in their yearly sales figures? Nada. Nothing.
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    Poe4soul

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    Re: WTF is the matter with people

    Post  Poe4soul on Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:38 pm

    Lord Helmet wrote:I get an email and urgent call from my credit card company. They ask me if I authorized and/or spent $800 at walmart.com

    No I did not buy anything at walmart.com so someone stole my info....

    I have fraud protection on my card - so Im not paying for this. But what a hassle.

    What makes people do this s.hit?

    More than likely the charge will be blocked and Walmart probably hasn't shipped anything yet.

    I get about 1 call every 6 months from my credit card company. Most of the time it's verifying a legit online credit card purchase I've made. I've only had a couple that were fraud. The fraud cases usually stick out like a sore thumb if your credit card company is doing their job right. Most peoples purchasing habits are pretty easily mapped and something irregular flags the fraud department. Most originate from overseas. Not sure how they get the numbers. I imagine they hack a merchants network and still the stored charges.

    I've even gotten into the habit of calling the fraud department to let them know I'm traveling. I had one of my cards suspended when I was on vacation. No real hassle that trip because I was in Hawaii but if it was in a foreign country it might have been a pain in the arse.
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    Fluffy

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    Re: WTF is the matter with people

    Post  Fluffy on Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:09 am

    I am in the IT industry and let me tell you I have never done anything online that consists of money.
    I am never made an electronical transfer, bought online or anything except cash withdrawls,montlhy debit orders,and recently after being forced by bank swiping for my groceries.

    I have had some extended experience with software and networking as well as the secuirty aspect of it. let me tell you: companies dont give a rats as about the security feautures until the product is working. Normally deadlines wouldve been missed and services has to go out with the minimal of security in place.

    The other day my bank sent me a wrong informational sms stating an double order and left out a doctors appointment which cost $1.50 more. Get at the bank and the manager tells me that its my responsibility to know whats happening in my account and I cant take the sms serious. ???WTF??? She even blamed the cellphone companies for the incorrectly displayed amounts on the sms. after I stated "so cellphone companies have access to modify the content of the body of a private sms?" send it to their technical department still awaiting my feedback after +-7months.

    Lets just say if one really want to steal money through electronical purchases it would be to easy. ITS SCARY EASY. most of the people carrying the knowledge to do so just dont care to do it with all the possible consequences and to correctly align where the extra money came from with all the other systems in place.
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    Pky6471

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    Re: WTF is the matter with people

    Post  Pky6471 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:35 am

    This happens more often then we realize, it also happened to our credit card,,,, the credit card company somehow suspected that it's a fraud and stopped the payment (we did not know about this problem UNTIL my wife could not use her credit card to charge). We called the company and we confirmed of unauthorized charge, so they sent us a new credit card/numbers.
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    Poe4soul

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    Re: WTF is the matter with people

    Post  Poe4soul on Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:23 am

    Fluffy wrote:I am in the IT industry and let me tell you I have never done anything online that consists of money.
    I am never made an electronical transfer, bought online or anything except cash withdrawls,montlhy debit orders,and recently after being forced by bank swiping for my groceries.

    I have had some extended experience with software and networking as well as the secuirty aspect of it. let me tell you: companies dont give a rats as about the security feautures until the product is working. Normally deadlines wouldve been missed and services has to go out with the minimal of security in place.

    The other day my bank sent me a wrong informational sms stating an double order and left out a doctors appointment which cost $1.50 more. Get at the bank and the manager tells me that its my responsibility to know whats happening in my account and I cant take the sms serious. ???WTF??? She even blamed the cellphone companies for the incorrectly displayed amounts on the sms. after I stated "so cellphone companies have access to modify the content of the body of a private sms?" send it to their technical department still awaiting my feedback after +-7months.

    Lets just say if one really want to steal money through electronical purchases it would be to easy. ITS SCARY EASY. most of the people carrying the knowledge to do so just dont care to do it with all the possible consequences and to correctly align where the extra money came from with all the other systems in place.

    My credit cards are pretty safe. Yes, people can steal your info and make fraudulent purchases but I've never been charged for any activity that wasn't a honest purchase. Credit card companies and the merchants are the ones on the hook for these bogus purchases.
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    FamousDavis
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    Re: WTF is the matter with people

    Post  FamousDavis on Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:42 pm

    The best way to protect yourself with a credit card is to set your account up so that you are notified by text or phone call any time a purchase is made over a certain amount. Also, you should sign up with a credit score company that keeps tabs on activity and notifies you whenever a new credit card, inquiry or anything else is done under your SS. Amex called me last month because someone had made small purchases in a row at 4am. They cancelled all the transactions.

    I had signed up with protectmyid.com but then cancelled it when they renewed me automatically at a much higher rate than before.

    I did my taxes last night and I always get my credit score at the same time. I have all 3 credit reports printed out for $29 and it is well worth it. You get to see what credit cards you have, activity and, of course, your score. Unlike my golf scores, my credit score is very high at 804. I pay on time, I am never late and I don't have any dept with the exception of my home mortgage.

    Interesting but every single person I have known who is chronically late to golf, parties and events in general also has a poor credit score and has trouble keeping employment. I have always found it interesting to observe the behavior of people who are late for everything. You schedule a time with them to play golf or some other activity and they are late every single time, always citing how busy they are. The truth is that they are lazy and don't care. I don't care about them either and usually abandon their friendship by the third time they are late. I have a buddy I play darts with who has been late the last 4 times in a row. The 5th time will be the last we play darts together. I will be foreclosing our friendship. He'll probably leave wondering "geez, I can't believe he won't be friends with me just because I was a little late". Oh, and by the way, he is maxed out on all his credit cards.

    Not sure how I ended up talking about late people.
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    Lord Helmet

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    Re: WTF is the matter with people

    Post  Lord Helmet on Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:49 pm

    FamousDavis wrote:The best way to protect yourself with a credit card is to set your account up so that you are notified by text or phone call any time a purchase is made over a certain amount. Also, you should sign up with a credit score company that keeps tabs on activity and notifies you whenever a new credit card, inquiry or anything else is done under your SS. Amex called me last month because someone had made small purchases in a row at 4am. They cancelled all the transactions.

    I had signed up with protectmyid.com but then cancelled it when they renewed me automatically at a much higher rate than before.

    I did my taxes last night and I always get my credit score at the same time. I have all 3 credit reports printed out for $29 and it is well worth it. You get to see what credit cards you have, activity and, of course, your score. Unlike my golf scores, my credit score is very high at 804. I pay on time, I am never late and I don't have any dept with the exception of my home mortgage.

    Interesting but every single person I have known who is chronically late to golf, parties and events in general also has a poor credit score and has trouble keeping employment. I have always found it interesting to observe the behavior of people who are late for everything. You schedule a time with them to play golf or some other activity and they are late every single time, always citing how busy they are. The truth is that they are lazy and don't care. I don't care about them either and usually abandon their friendship by the third time they are late. I have a buddy I play darts with who has been late the last 4 times in a row. The 5th time will be the last we play darts together. I will be foreclosing our friendship. He'll probably leave wondering "geez, I can't believe he won't be friends with me just because I was a little late". Oh, and by the way, he is maxed out on all his credit cards.

    Not sure how I ended up talking about late people.

    Im going to look into this. Thanks.

    Golfaholic

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    Re: WTF is the matter with people

    Post  Golfaholic on Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:45 pm

    I had 4 x $400 cash withdraws taken out of my chequing account two Christmas ago. Someone made the withdrawals at ATM's at Truck Stops across the province. My bank was good about getting me the cash back into my account the day I went in about it.
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    Poe4soul

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    Re: WTF is the matter with people

    Post  Poe4soul on Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:56 pm

    FamousDavis wrote:The best way to protect yourself with a credit card is to set your account up so that you are notified by text or phone call any time a purchase is made over a certain amount. Also, you should sign up with a credit score company that keeps tabs on activity and notifies you whenever a new credit card, inquiry or anything else is done under your SS. Amex called me last month because someone had made small purchases in a row at 4am. They cancelled all the transactions.

    I had signed up with protectmyid.com but then cancelled it when they renewed me automatically at a much higher rate than before.

    I did my taxes last night and I always get my credit score at the same time. I have all 3 credit reports printed out for $29 and it is well worth it. You get to see what credit cards you have, activity and, of course, your score. Unlike my golf scores, my credit score is very high at 804. I pay on time, I am never late and I don't have any dept with the exception of my home mortgage.

    Interesting but every single person I have known who is chronically late to golf, parties and events in general also has a poor credit score and has trouble keeping employment. I have always found it interesting to observe the behavior of people who are late for everything. You schedule a time with them to play golf or some other activity and they are late every single time, always citing how busy they are. The truth is that they are lazy and don't care. I don't care about them either and usually abandon their friendship by the third time they are late. I have a buddy I play darts with who has been late the last 4 times in a row. The 5th time will be the last we play darts together. I will be foreclosing our friendship. He'll probably leave wondering "geez, I can't believe he won't be friends with me just because I was a little late". Oh, and by the way, he is maxed out on all his credit cards.

    Not sure how I ended up talking about late people.

    Going through a refinance right now. Getting a 15 year at 2.75% - crazy low interest rates. My credit has always been good. The three agencies rated be between 795 and 805. The only negative they have is the high revolving credit amounts. I pay a shit ton on my credit card and they don't seem to like that even though they are paid in full each and every month. Hell, they're e the ones giving mileage on charges. Duh, I'm going to get the milage. I also don't understand the comment since each of my three credit cards have between $25k to $50k limit. I'm usually paying about $3K a month through the card. Banks are crazy.

    I do fit your mold. I'm very punctual. I'm usually not early, about 5-10 minutes, or on time. If I'm late I'm calling of sending a text. Never late for a tee time unless there is something totally screwed that I can't control like traffic.

    Banks/credit card companies have many ways and tools of controlling fraud. The stupidest thing a cardholder can do is write in the signature space "see photo id." This will bring all kinds of unforeseen consequences. The cardholder's agreement states that you'll sign the card. The merchant is supposed to check your signature. Absent of the signature and you are responsible. If the signature doesn't match, the merchant is responsible for proving it was you who made the purchase. It's a simple, yet effective system.
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    FamousDavis
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    Re: WTF is the matter with people

    Post  FamousDavis on Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:31 pm

    Poe4soul wrote:
    FamousDavis wrote:The best way to protect yourself with a credit card is to set your account up so that you are notified by text or phone call any time a purchase is made over a certain amount. Also, you should sign up with a credit score company that keeps tabs on activity and notifies you whenever a new credit card, inquiry or anything else is done under your SS. Amex called me last month because someone had made small purchases in a row at 4am. They cancelled all the transactions.

    I had signed up with protectmyid.com but then cancelled it when they renewed me automatically at a much higher rate than before.

    I did my taxes last night and I always get my credit score at the same time. I have all 3 credit reports printed out for $29 and it is well worth it. You get to see what credit cards you have, activity and, of course, your score. Unlike my golf scores, my credit score is very high at 804. I pay on time, I am never late and I don't have any dept with the exception of my home mortgage.

    Interesting but every single person I have known who is chronically late to golf, parties and events in general also has a poor credit score and has trouble keeping employment. I have always found it interesting to observe the behavior of people who are late for everything. You schedule a time with them to play golf or some other activity and they are late every single time, always citing how busy they are. The truth is that they are lazy and don't care. I don't care about them either and usually abandon their friendship by the third time they are late. I have a buddy I play darts with who has been late the last 4 times in a row. The 5th time will be the last we play darts together. I will be foreclosing our friendship. He'll probably leave wondering "geez, I can't believe he won't be friends with me just because I was a little late". Oh, and by the way, he is maxed out on all his credit cards.

    Not sure how I ended up talking about late people.

    Going through a refinance right now. Getting a 15 year at 2.75% - crazy low interest rates. My credit has always been good. The three agencies rated be between 795 and 805. The only negative they have is the high revolving credit amounts. I pay a shit ton on my credit card and they don't seem to like that even though they are paid in full each and every month. Hell, they're e the ones giving mileage on charges. Duh, I'm going to get the milage. I also don't understand the comment since each of my three credit cards have between $25k to $50k limit. I'm usually paying about $3K a month through the card. Banks are crazy.

    I do fit your mold. I'm very punctual. I'm usually not early, about 5-10 minutes, or on time. If I'm late I'm calling of sending a text. Never late for a tee time unless there is something totally screwed that I can't control like traffic.

    Banks/credit card companies have many ways and tools of controlling fraud. The stupidest thing a cardholder can do is write in the signature space "see photo id." This will bring all kinds of unforeseen consequences. The cardholder's agreement states that you'll sign the card. The merchant is supposed to check your signature. Absent of the signature and you are responsible. If the signature doesn't match, the merchant is responsible for proving it was you who made the purchase. It's a simple, yet effective system.

    If you can really get 2.75% for 15 years I might have to do that as well. Right now I have 27 years left at 4.375%

    Are you paying points for that rate and what are the total up front costs? That's amazing.
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    Pky6471

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    Re: WTF is the matter with people

    Post  Pky6471 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:11 pm

    FamousDavis wrote:

    If you can really get 2.75% for 15 years I might have to do that as well. Right now I have 27 years left at 4.375%

    Are you paying points for that rate and what are the total up front costs? That's amazing.

    FD... do it now and save money, 15 yrs at 2.75% may have the same payment as 30 yrs at 4.375%...
    I already paid off my house last year (15 yrs/ 6.25%) Razz
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    Fluffy

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    Re: WTF is the matter with people

    Post  Fluffy on Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:24 am

    Pky6471 wrote:
    FamousDavis wrote:

    If you can really get 2.75% for 15 years I might have to do that as well. Right now I have 27 years left at 4.375%

    Are you paying points for that rate and what are the total up front costs? That's amazing.

    FD... do it now and save money, 15 yrs at 2.75% may have the same payment as 30 yrs at 4.375%...
    I already paid off my house last year (15 yrs/ 6.25%) Razz

    Not in the market yet but here in south africa your startoff interest rate for buying houses are 9-11% no matter what...Think 25 years max
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    Poe4soul

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    Re: WTF is the matter with people

    Post  Poe4soul on Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:27 pm

    FamousDavis wrote:
    Poe4soul wrote:
    FamousDavis wrote:The best way to protect yourself with a credit card is to set your account up so that you are notified by text or phone call any time a purchase is made over a certain amount. Also, you should sign up with a credit score company that keeps tabs on activity and notifies you whenever a new credit card, inquiry or anything else is done under your SS. Amex called me last month because someone had made small purchases in a row at 4am. They cancelled all the transactions.

    I had signed up with protectmyid.com but then cancelled it when they renewed me automatically at a much higher rate than before.

    I did my taxes last night and I always get my credit score at the same time. I have all 3 credit reports printed out for $29 and it is well worth it. You get to see what credit cards you have, activity and, of course, your score. Unlike my golf scores, my credit score is very high at 804. I pay on time, I am never late and I don't have any dept with the exception of my home mortgage.

    Interesting but every single person I have known who is chronically late to golf, parties and events in general also has a poor credit score and has trouble keeping employment. I have always found it interesting to observe the behavior of people who are late for everything. You schedule a time with them to play golf or some other activity and they are late every single time, always citing how busy they are. The truth is that they are lazy and don't care. I don't care about them either and usually abandon their friendship by the third time they are late. I have a buddy I play darts with who has been late the last 4 times in a row. The 5th time will be the last we play darts together. I will be foreclosing our friendship. He'll probably leave wondering "geez, I can't believe he won't be friends with me just because I was a little late". Oh, and by the way, he is maxed out on all his credit cards.

    Not sure how I ended up talking about late people.

    Going through a refinance right now. Getting a 15 year at 2.75% - crazy low interest rates. My credit has always been good. The three agencies rated be between 795 and 805. The only negative they have is the high revolving credit amounts. I pay a shit ton on my credit card and they don't seem to like that even though they are paid in full each and every month. Hell, they're e the ones giving mileage on charges. Duh, I'm going to get the milage. I also don't understand the comment since each of my three credit cards have between $25k to $50k limit. I'm usually paying about $3K a month through the card. Banks are crazy.

    I do fit your mold. I'm very punctual. I'm usually not early, about 5-10 minutes, or on time. If I'm late I'm calling of sending a text. Never late for a tee time unless there is something totally screwed that I can't control like traffic.

    Banks/credit card companies have many ways and tools of controlling fraud. The stupidest thing a cardholder can do is write in the signature space "see photo id." This will bring all kinds of unforeseen consequences. The cardholder's agreement states that you'll sign the card. The merchant is supposed to check your signature. Absent of the signature and you are responsible. If the signature doesn't match, the merchant is responsible for proving it was you who made the purchase. It's a simple, yet effective system.

    If you can really get 2.75% for 15 years I might have to do that as well. Right now I have 27 years left at 4.375%

    Are you paying points for that rate and what are the total up front costs? That's amazing.

    I got one quote for 2.75%, 15 years straight without paying points, closing costs at $2400. I got a second quote at 2.75%, 15 years no points and closing cost at $3200. I then put the two in the shark tank. I let the second know I was getting at better deal by $800. He cried bs and I fired the Good Faith estimate his way. Within an hour Good Faith Estimate from the 2nd dude for 2.75%, 15 years, and a credit for closing bringing my cost down to under $1500. Granted I used Zillow to get the best deals to start and went from there. I know they are going to resell my mortgage but I really don't care.

    It looks like you could do better than 2.75% right now. Here's zillow's mortgage page...

    http://www.zillow.com/mortgage-rates/#sortBy=costAfter15Years&request=ZR-ZFZQSHC
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    Horseballs

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    Re: WTF is the matter with people

    Post  Horseballs on Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:51 pm

    I refinanced in September last year for 2.75% 15 yr fixed no points. It's truly unbelievable the financing deals out there for qualified people. I've always been a bit conservative about keeping fixed costs low, like paying cash for cars instead of financing. But I was able to get .9% financing on cars bought in 2010 and 2011. Of course I'm going to do that.
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    FamousDavis
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    Re: WTF is the matter with people

    Post  FamousDavis on Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:58 pm

    Poe4soul wrote:
    FamousDavis wrote:
    Poe4soul wrote:
    FamousDavis wrote:The best way to protect yourself with a credit card is to set your account up so that you are notified by text or phone call any time a purchase is made over a certain amount. Also, you should sign up with a credit score company that keeps tabs on activity and notifies you whenever a new credit card, inquiry or anything else is done under your SS. Amex called me last month because someone had made small purchases in a row at 4am. They cancelled all the transactions.

    I had signed up with protectmyid.com but then cancelled it when they renewed me automatically at a much higher rate than before.

    I did my taxes last night and I always get my credit score at the same time. I have all 3 credit reports printed out for $29 and it is well worth it. You get to see what credit cards you have, activity and, of course, your score. Unlike my golf scores, my credit score is very high at 804. I pay on time, I am never late and I don't have any dept with the exception of my home mortgage.

    Interesting but every single person I have known who is chronically late to golf, parties and events in general also has a poor credit score and has trouble keeping employment. I have always found it interesting to observe the behavior of people who are late for everything. You schedule a time with them to play golf or some other activity and they are late every single time, always citing how busy they are. The truth is that they are lazy and don't care. I don't care about them either and usually abandon their friendship by the third time they are late. I have a buddy I play darts with who has been late the last 4 times in a row. The 5th time will be the last we play darts together. I will be foreclosing our friendship. He'll probably leave wondering "geez, I can't believe he won't be friends with me just because I was a little late". Oh, and by the way, he is maxed out on all his credit cards.

    Not sure how I ended up talking about late people.

    Going through a refinance right now. Getting a 15 year at 2.75% - crazy low interest rates. My credit has always been good. The three agencies rated be between 795 and 805. The only negative they have is the high revolving credit amounts. I pay a shit ton on my credit card and they don't seem to like that even though they are paid in full each and every month. Hell, they're e the ones giving mileage on charges. Duh, I'm going to get the milage. I also don't understand the comment since each of my three credit cards have between $25k to $50k limit. I'm usually paying about $3K a month through the card. Banks are crazy.

    I do fit your mold. I'm very punctual. I'm usually not early, about 5-10 minutes, or on time. If I'm late I'm calling of sending a text. Never late for a tee time unless there is something totally screwed that I can't control like traffic.

    Banks/credit card companies have many ways and tools of controlling fraud. The stupidest thing a cardholder can do is write in the signature space "see photo id." This will bring all kinds of unforeseen consequences. The cardholder's agreement states that you'll sign the card. The merchant is supposed to check your signature. Absent of the signature and you are responsible. If the signature doesn't match, the merchant is responsible for proving it was you who made the purchase. It's a simple, yet effective system.

    If you can really get 2.75% for 15 years I might have to do that as well. Right now I have 27 years left at 4.375%

    Are you paying points for that rate and what are the total up front costs? That's amazing.

    I got one quote for 2.75%, 15 years straight without paying points, closing costs at $2400. I got a second quote at 2.75%, 15 years no points and closing cost at $3200. I then put the two in the shark tank. I let the second know I was getting at better deal by $800. He cried bs and I fired the Good Faith estimate his way. Within an hour Good Faith Estimate from the 2nd dude for 2.75%, 15 years, and a credit for closing bringing my cost down to under $1500. Granted I used Zillow to get the best deals to start and went from there. I know they are going to resell my mortgage but I really don't care.

    It looks like you could do better than 2.75% right now. Here's zillow's mortgage page...

    http://www.zillow.com/mortgage-rates/#sortBy=costAfter15Years&request=ZR-ZFZQSHC

    Thank you. The lowest rate I see is 2.75% and it claims that there is $1 in fees. Safeguard Home Loans. They have 100% positive feedback which in itself seems questionable.

    Based on my current loan balance of $287,000, if I refinanced with a 15 year mortgage at 2.75% I'd be paying $1,897 per month for 15 years.

    Right now, I have a 30 year mortgage, with 27 years remaining, at 4.375% where I pay $1,497 per month. So, I'd be paying $400 per month more but I'd have the house paid off in 15 years rather than 27, difference of 12 years. Of course, that's only if I am still living in this home in 15 years.


    $1497 x 27 x 12 = $485,028.

    $1897 x 15 x 12 = $341,460.

    That's a savings of $143,568, pretty substantial. But again only if I live in that home for 27 years.

    $1497 x 15 x 12 = $296,460

    $1897 x 15 x 12 = $341,460.

    If I stay there 15 years or less it doesn't make sense. Yes, I'll pay off more principal but not that much.

    I will look into this more but really need to determine if I'm going to live in this home for the rest of my life.

    Let me know if you think I'm leaving anything obvious out in my analysis.


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    Pky6471

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    Re: WTF is the matter with people

    Post  Pky6471 on Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:30 pm

    FamousDavis wrote:Right now, I have a 30 year mortgage, with 27 years remaining, at 4.375% where I pay $1,497 per month. So, I'd be paying $400 per month more but I'd have the house paid off in 15 years rather than 27, difference of 12 years. Of course, that's only if I am still living in this home in 15 years.


    $1497 x 27 x 12 = $485,028.

    $1897 x 15 x 12 = $341,460.

    That's a savings of $143,568, pretty substantial. But again only if I live in that home for 27 years.

    $1497 x 15 x 12 = $296,460

    $1897 x 15 x 12 = $341,460.

    If I stay there 15 years or less it doesn't make sense. Yes, I'll pay off more principal but not that much.

    I will look into this more but really need to determine if I'm going to live in this home for the rest of my life.

    Let me know if you think I'm leaving anything obvious out in my analysis.

    I am not a finance major but I get involved in $$$$$ a lot at work, so I've learned a lot from those "finance" guys/girls/AC-DC.

    Let's assume that U refinance for 15 yrs. So after 15 yrs and $341,460 , your net worth will include the value of your house at that time (maybe $500K or $750K). If you continue paying $1497 a month, after 15 yrs and $296,460 , your net worth will include (the value of your house minus money you still owe the bank on your mortgage at that time).... I think it would be more than ($341,460 - $296,460). Do the math and you should be able to figure it out by yourself. If you don't have to pay "upfront money" to get the 15-yr loan than you don't have to calculate how long you have to stay and get that money back (justification). I think 15-yr loan is better if U could afford it... UNLESS $400/month difference give U a better yield investing somewhere else. Nowadays, 8%-10% return yearly on the average is very very gơod. (Last yr most of us in 401K should see 12%-20% return depending on how risky the stock funds are)
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    Poe4soul

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    Re: WTF is the matter with people

    Post  Poe4soul on Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:07 pm

    FamousDavis wrote:
    Poe4soul wrote:
    FamousDavis wrote:
    Poe4soul wrote:
    FamousDavis wrote:The best way to protect yourself with a credit card is to set your account up so that you are notified by text or phone call any time a purchase is made over a certain amount. Also, you should sign up with a credit score company that keeps tabs on activity and notifies you whenever a new credit card, inquiry or anything else is done under your SS. Amex called me last month because someone had made small purchases in a row at 4am. They cancelled all the transactions.

    I had signed up with protectmyid.com but then cancelled it when they renewed me automatically at a much higher rate than before.

    I did my taxes last night and I always get my credit score at the same time. I have all 3 credit reports printed out for $29 and it is well worth it. You get to see what credit cards you have, activity and, of course, your score. Unlike my golf scores, my credit score is very high at 804. I pay on time, I am never late and I don't have any dept with the exception of my home mortgage.

    Interesting but every single person I have known who is chronically late to golf, parties and events in general also has a poor credit score and has trouble keeping employment. I have always found it interesting to observe the behavior of people who are late for everything. You schedule a time with them to play golf or some other activity and they are late every single time, always citing how busy they are. The truth is that they are lazy and don't care. I don't care about them either and usually abandon their friendship by the third time they are late. I have a buddy I play darts with who has been late the last 4 times in a row. The 5th time will be the last we play darts together. I will be foreclosing our friendship. He'll probably leave wondering "geez, I can't believe he won't be friends with me just because I was a little late". Oh, and by the way, he is maxed out on all his credit cards.

    Not sure how I ended up talking about late people.

    Going through a refinance right now. Getting a 15 year at 2.75% - crazy low interest rates. My credit has always been good. The three agencies rated be between 795 and 805. The only negative they have is the high revolving credit amounts. I pay a shit ton on my credit card and they don't seem to like that even though they are paid in full each and every month. Hell, they're e the ones giving mileage on charges. Duh, I'm going to get the milage. I also don't understand the comment since each of my three credit cards have between $25k to $50k limit. I'm usually paying about $3K a month through the card. Banks are crazy.

    I do fit your mold. I'm very punctual. I'm usually not early, about 5-10 minutes, or on time. If I'm late I'm calling of sending a text. Never late for a tee time unless there is something totally screwed that I can't control like traffic.

    Banks/credit card companies have many ways and tools of controlling fraud. The stupidest thing a cardholder can do is write in the signature space "see photo id." This will bring all kinds of unforeseen consequences. The cardholder's agreement states that you'll sign the card. The merchant is supposed to check your signature. Absent of the signature and you are responsible. If the signature doesn't match, the merchant is responsible for proving it was you who made the purchase. It's a simple, yet effective system.

    If you can really get 2.75% for 15 years I might have to do that as well. Right now I have 27 years left at 4.375%

    Are you paying points for that rate and what are the total up front costs? That's amazing.

    I got one quote for 2.75%, 15 years straight without paying points, closing costs at $2400. I got a second quote at 2.75%, 15 years no points and closing cost at $3200. I then put the two in the shark tank. I let the second know I was getting at better deal by $800. He cried bs and I fired the Good Faith estimate his way. Within an hour Good Faith Estimate from the 2nd dude for 2.75%, 15 years, and a credit for closing bringing my cost down to under $1500. Granted I used Zillow to get the best deals to start and went from there. I know they are going to resell my mortgage but I really don't care.

    It looks like you could do better than 2.75% right now. Here's zillow's mortgage page...

    http://www.zillow.com/mortgage-rates/#sortBy=costAfter15Years&request=ZR-ZFZQSHC

    Thank you. The lowest rate I see is 2.75% and it claims that there is $1 in fees. Safeguard Home Loans. They have 100% positive feedback which in itself seems questionable.

    Based on my current loan balance of $287,000, if I refinanced with a 15 year mortgage at 2.75% I'd be paying $1,897 per month for 15 years.

    Right now, I have a 30 year mortgage, with 27 years remaining, at 4.375% where I pay $1,497 per month. So, I'd be paying $400 per month more but I'd have the house paid off in 15 years rather than 27, difference of 12 years. Of course, that's only if I am still living in this home in 15 years.


    $1497 x 27 x 12 = $485,028.

    $1897 x 15 x 12 = $341,460.

    That's a savings of $143,568, pretty substantial. But again only if I live in that home for 27 years.

    $1497 x 15 x 12 = $296,460

    $1897 x 15 x 12 = $341,460.

    If I stay there 15 years or less it doesn't make sense. Yes, I'll pay off more principal but not that much.

    I will look into this more but really need to determine if I'm going to live in this home for the rest of my life.

    Let me know if you think I'm leaving anything obvious out in my analysis.



    There's also a 20 year mortgage. Those rates seem to be coming in just over 3% for a 20 yr. That would make your payment about the same as you have now. I'd also look at a 30 year refinance which appears to be about a point lower than you have now. You'd save yourself just under $200 per month. Calc'd at my cost for the loan of $1400, you'd payoff the fees in about 8 months. Every month after the 8 months is $200 in your pocket, or in another way of looking at it, one set of irons at play-it-again sports. That's a pretty easy equation for a ho'.
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    Poe4soul

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    Re: WTF is the matter with people

    Post  Poe4soul on Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:42 pm

    Pky6471 wrote:
    FamousDavis wrote:Right now, I have a 30 year mortgage, with 27 years remaining, at 4.375% where I pay $1,497 per month. So, I'd be paying $400 per month more but I'd have the house paid off in 15 years rather than 27, difference of 12 years. Of course, that's only if I am still living in this home in 15 years.


    $1497 x 27 x 12 = $485,028.

    $1897 x 15 x 12 = $341,460.

    That's a savings of $143,568, pretty substantial. But again only if I live in that home for 27 years.

    $1497 x 15 x 12 = $296,460

    $1897 x 15 x 12 = $341,460.

    If I stay there 15 years or less it doesn't make sense. Yes, I'll pay off more principal but not that much.

    I will look into this more but really need to determine if I'm going to live in this home for the rest of my life.

    Let me know if you think I'm leaving anything obvious out in my analysis.

    I am not a finance major but I get involved in $$$$$ a lot at work, so I've learned a lot from those "finance" guys/girls/AC-DC.

    Let's assume that U refinance for 15 yrs. So after 15 yrs and $341,460 , your net worth will include the value of your house at that time (maybe $500K or $750K). If you continue paying $1497 a month, after 15 yrs and $296,460 , your net worth will include (the value of your house minus money you still owe the bank on your mortgage at that time).... I think it would be more than ($341,460 - $296,460). Do the math and you should be able to figure it out by yourself. If you don't have to pay "upfront money" to get the 15-yr loan than you don't have to calculate how long you have to stay and get that money back (justification). I think 15-yr loan is better if U could afford it... UNLESS $400/month difference give U a better yield investing somewhere else. Nowadays, 8%-10% return yearly on the average is very very gơod. (Last yr most of us in 401K should see 12%-20% return depending on how risky the stock funds are)

    Agreed, of course this gets really confusing is you add in tax deductions for interest paid and other implications.

    I used to hear 1 point was about 7 years break even for the fees to refinance. With the fees I'm being charged, under $1500, the break even will be under a year for my loan. I'll be refinancing the same amount + the fees. This is a savings of about $8K over the loan. I could continue to pay the old mortgage payment, basically paying about $290 per month more. This is an additional savings of about $6K or a total of $15K over the term of the loan. But based on your last comment, it might be better to up my 401K and invest the extra $290 per month. Even in a 8% profit year, I'd net an extra 5%. But I do hate making house payments...
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    Poe4soul

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    Re: WTF is the matter with people

    Post  Poe4soul on Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:24 pm

    Horseballs wrote:I refinanced in September last year for 2.75% 15 yr fixed no points. It's truly unbelievable the financing deals out there for qualified people. I've always been a bit conservative about keeping fixed costs low, like paying cash for cars instead of financing. But I was able to get .9% financing on cars bought in 2010 and 2011. Of course I'm going to do that.

    I was just looking at some leases for a business car. You can get a 36 month lease on a Nissan leaf, $2000 due at signing. Our fuel bill for the current car is almost $200/mo. Plus it needs tires and service. Its pretty attractive.
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    Re: WTF is the matter with people

    Post  FamousDavis on Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:27 am

    Horseballs wrote:I refinanced in September last year for 2.75% 15 yr fixed no points. It's truly unbelievable the financing deals out there for qualified people. I've always been a bit conservative about keeping fixed costs low, like paying cash for cars instead of financing. But I was able to get .9% financing on cars bought in 2010 and 2011. Of course I'm going to do that.

    I'll need to look into that but again I really need to take a hard look at how long I believe I'll be in my current home. No doubt I'll pay off more principal with a 15 year vs. 30 year but it's an additional $400/month that's mainly going toward interest in the beginning.

    One thing I've learned is to be skeptical when it comes to financial advice. A lot of advice is based on theory and opinion and there are many different ways of looking at an investment.

    One opinion I disagree with, and that I believe has recently been proven wrong, is the one that states that you should borrow as much as possible when purchasing a home. The theory is that you can put the money that would have gone toward the down payment into a mutual fund and earn 8% to 10% a year rather than have it sit as a downpayment. In theory, that sounds good if you invest all that money in an S&P 500 fund and let it sit for 30 years.

    However, if you would have done that in 2006 the value of that money, in 2008, would be almost half of what it originally was. Further, if you lost your job at that time, like many Americans did, you might need to sell your house that is now worth 30% less with an upside down mortgage. What if you needed to relocate?

    With refinancing, it's not always a no brainer although the 2.75% sounds pretty darn good, especially with no fees. Still, you need to make sure that the extra monthly payment vs. the 30-year isn't going to hurt too much and that you're sure you'll be living in the house for quite awhile.

    I agree that auto financing at 1% is the right thing to do. I once financed a car at around 6% and felt like I was throwing money away.

    Another theory that's been proven wrong is that real estate is a great investment. If you take inflation into account along with interest payments, homeowners insurance, repairs, HOA (if applicable) and property taxes it's really not that great of an investment. Of course, owning a home brings you a certain amount of joy that renting does not.
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    Fluffy

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    Re: WTF is the matter with people

    Post  Fluffy on Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:49 am

    There's only one rule in debt...

    Pay every sent you can afford to get rid of it as soon as possible!

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    Poe4soul

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    Re: WTF is the matter with people

    Post  Poe4soul on Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:14 am

    FamousDavis wrote:
    Horseballs wrote:I refinanced in September last year for 2.75% 15 yr fixed no points. It's truly unbelievable the financing deals out there for qualified people. I've always been a bit conservative about keeping fixed costs low, like paying cash for cars instead of financing. But I was able to get .9% financing on cars bought in 2010 and 2011. Of course I'm going to do that.

    I'll need to look into that but again I really need to take a hard look at how long I believe I'll be in my current home. No doubt I'll pay off more principal with a 15 year vs. 30 year but it's an additional $400/month that's mainly going toward interest in the beginning.

    One thing I've learned is to be skeptical when it comes to financial advice. A lot of advice is based on theory and opinion and there are many different ways of looking at an investment.

    One opinion I disagree with, and that I believe has recently been proven wrong, is the one that states that you should borrow as much as possible when purchasing a home. The theory is that you can put the money that would have gone toward the down payment into a mutual fund and earn 8% to 10% a year rather than have it sit as a downpayment. In theory, that sounds good if you invest all that money in an S&P 500 fund and let it sit for 30 years.

    However, if you would have done that in 2006 the value of that money, in 2008, would be almost half of what it originally was. Further, if you lost your job at that time, like many Americans did, you might need to sell your house that is now worth 30% less with an upside down mortgage. What if you needed to relocate?

    With refinancing, it's not always a no brainer although the 2.75% sounds pretty darn good, especially with no fees. Still, you need to make sure that the extra monthly payment vs. the 30-year isn't going to hurt too much and that you're sure you'll be living in the house for quite awhile.

    I agree that auto financing at 1% is the right thing to do. I once financed a car at around 6% and felt like I was throwing money away.

    Another theory that's been proven wrong is that real estate is a great investment. If you take inflation into account along with interest payments, homeowners insurance, repairs, HOA (if applicable) and property taxes it's really not that great of an investment. Of course, owning a home brings you a certain amount of joy that renting does not.

    I know plenty of people that did just fine investing in houses. Granted they've been down for a few years but the smart ones don't get overleveraged and cut their loses. Like the stock market, the rule is to buy low and sell high. Right now all of those people are investing in houses, at least they are in the Portland market. It's really an easy equation if you have the money to invest. Houses are at a all time low and many markets are moving pretty good right now. You just have to be smart about it. Many of the homes in our neighborhoods are be bought by investors and renting them out. Because of the low interest rates many of the homes are renting high enough to break even or show a profit. When the housing gets moving these homes will see double digit profits with little investment. You just have to have money or access to money.

    As far as your loan, you need to consider other options if you don't want to make the extra $400 payment. Look into the 20 year or even refinance a 30 year. If the fees are very low, which they were for me, the only equation you have to consider is how long it take to pay off the cost of the loan with your interest savings. Every month after the cost is paid off is money in your pocket. It's really not rocket science.
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    Re: WTF is the matter with people

    Post  FamousDavis on Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:51 pm

    Poe4soul wrote:
    FamousDavis wrote:
    Horseballs wrote:I refinanced in September last year for 2.75% 15 yr fixed no points. It's truly unbelievable the financing deals out there for qualified people. I've always been a bit conservative about keeping fixed costs low, like paying cash for cars instead of financing. But I was able to get .9% financing on cars bought in 2010 and 2011. Of course I'm going to do that.

    I'll need to look into that but again I really need to take a hard look at how long I believe I'll be in my current home. No doubt I'll pay off more principal with a 15 year vs. 30 year but it's an additional $400/month that's mainly going toward interest in the beginning.

    One thing I've learned is to be skeptical when it comes to financial advice. A lot of advice is based on theory and opinion and there are many different ways of looking at an investment.

    One opinion I disagree with, and that I believe has recently been proven wrong, is the one that states that you should borrow as much as possible when purchasing a home. The theory is that you can put the money that would have gone toward the down payment into a mutual fund and earn 8% to 10% a year rather than have it sit as a downpayment. In theory, that sounds good if you invest all that money in an S&P 500 fund and let it sit for 30 years.

    However, if you would have done that in 2006 the value of that money, in 2008, would be almost half of what it originally was. Further, if you lost your job at that time, like many Americans did, you might need to sell your house that is now worth 30% less with an upside down mortgage. What if you needed to relocate?

    With refinancing, it's not always a no brainer although the 2.75% sounds pretty darn good, especially with no fees. Still, you need to make sure that the extra monthly payment vs. the 30-year isn't going to hurt too much and that you're sure you'll be living in the house for quite awhile.

    I agree that auto financing at 1% is the right thing to do. I once financed a car at around 6% and felt like I was throwing money away.

    Another theory that's been proven wrong is that real estate is a great investment. If you take inflation into account along with interest payments, homeowners insurance, repairs, HOA (if applicable) and property taxes it's really not that great of an investment. Of course, owning a home brings you a certain amount of joy that renting does not.

    I know plenty of people that did just fine investing in houses. Granted they've been down for a few years but the smart ones don't get overleveraged and cut their loses. Like the stock market, the rule is to buy low and sell high. Right now all of those people are investing in houses, at least they are in the Portland market. It's really an easy equation if you have the money to invest. Houses are at a all time low and many markets are moving pretty good right now. You just have to be smart about it. Many of the homes in our neighborhoods are be bought by investors and renting them out. Because of the low interest rates many of the homes are renting high enough to break even or show a profit. When the housing gets moving these homes will see double digit profits with little investment. You just have to have money or access to money.

    As far as your loan, you need to consider other options if you don't want to make the extra $400 payment. Look into the 20 year or even refinance a 30 year. If the fees are very low, which they were for me, the only equation you have to consider is how long it take to pay off the cost of the loan with your interest savings. Every month after the cost is paid off is money in your pocket. It's really not rocket science.

    It's certainly more complicated than you are making it out to be. For example, you mention me refinancing with a 30-year loan. I also have to take into consideration that I'm already 3 years into that loan and I've been paying on that loan for 3 years. Starting over with a new 30 year adds another 3 years of payments and it means I'll have my house paid off 3 years later than my situation now.

    Buying low and selling high? Yeah, that sounds great when you look back in time. Most people I talked to back in 2003 thought the Calfornia housing bubble was about to burst at any time. It took 3 more years for that to happen. The home I bought in Los Angeles for $540,000 in 2003 sold for $750,000 exactly one year and 4 months later.

    You cannot predict when a market is "low" or "high". That is only something people do in hindsight and they pretend that they knew it all along.

    I love it when I hear people talk about their stocks and they say "Yeah, I knew the market was going to tank in 2007 so I got out early. How did you do?". These people are insufferable asses and pretend as if they have some deeper knowledge and can accurately predict the market. Most of them are broke and full of sh!t.

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