Forgive me Titleist, for I have sinned...

I seriously doubt that Cleveland partnered up with Miyazaki to provide all of the stock graphite shafts that come with the Classic 270, 290 and 310 series with the idea in mind that they'd have to shim each and every shaft to fit the hosel. The design of the club and the partnering with the company providing the shaft is done at the same time. Especially in this case as I've never seen any shaft other than Miyazaki come with the Classic series of drivers.

Playa', you think Cleveland approached Miyazaki and said "Hey, we'd like for you to provide us with all the shafts for our new Classic line of drivers"

Miyazaki replied "That's fine, but we only make .335 sized shafts and we won't change that for you".

Cleveland: "Oh, not problem. We'll just shim all of the tens of thousands of clubs we manufacture because we really like you guys".

Did it ever occur to you that maybe Miyazaki produced a grouping of shafts specifically designed for the Cleveland Classic series of drivers? And that maybe this particular grouping of shafts is .350 rather than their usual .335? And that maybe that grouping of shafts is different than their normal line of aftermarket shafts?

OK. I went to my Golf Stuff Reference Library and consulted several years' worth of Golfworks catalogs. The lightweight C Kua shafts that came from the factory in those lightweight Cleveland drivers have .350" tips. The more recent ultra premo shafts are .335" tips. So if you have one with an upcharge real thing, it may well have been installed factory-shimmed.

Mostly German wrote:OK. I went to my Golf Stuff Reference Library and consulted several years' worth of Golfworks catalogs. The lightweight C Kua shafts that came from the factory in those lightweight Cleveland drivers have .350" tips. The more recent ultra premo shafts are .335" tips. So if you have one with an upcharge real thing, it may well have been installed factory-shimmed.

Sounds about right. My driver is the 310 tour which came out with the upgraded kusala shafts as standard. It makes sense that the stock shafts for the non tour drivers would el cheapo made for, I should have clarified that my only experience was with the 310 version. This would also explain why you dont see many 310 s in store, they are probably a special order item. Interesting that lots of tour pros play the 290 with upgraded kusala shafts. Those must be shimmed too, so maybe it doesnt make any difference to performance.

Lord Helmet wrote:LOL pk! You coming to Ohio this year? We can battle it out with the DET's!

That would be fun but I don't go to OH this yr, will have to go to MI in first weekend of May for nephew's graduation and play 2 rounds there. My friend in MI just bought the TM R 11S and he swears by that, so here is my chance to beat the shiiiiiit out of him

Mostly German wrote:OK. I went to my Golf Stuff Reference Library and consulted several years' worth of Golfworks catalogs. The lightweight C Kua shafts that came from the factory in those lightweight Cleveland drivers have .350" tips. The more recent ultra premo shafts are .335" tips. So if you have one with an upcharge real thing, it may well have been installed factory-shimmed.

Any data from anywhere confirming that 0.350" tips are better or worse than 0.335" tips???

Yes. The data I get from my hands, arms and body when I hit a driver with a .350" tip shaft as opposed to the .335" tipped driver shaft. From an engineering standpoint, the shaft walls of the larger tip diameter shaft must be stiffer and thinner than the small diameter shaft tip in order for them to come in at the same weights. Next time you are in a store that has uncut new shafts on display, take a close look at the wall thickness of the .350" vs. the .335" tip. There's a good bit more meat on the walls of the thinner tip shaft making them slightly more flexible. Now the flex data contained in the DSFI material I referenced earlier seems to confirm this. The upside of the thicker tip shaft is that it can be more twist-resistant than the thinner shaft. But for "feel", I'll stick with the skinny ones. I find the same applies to irons. I much prefer the tapered tip shafts at .355" than the parallel tip iron shafts with .370" hosels.

Mostly German wrote:Yes. The data I get from my hands, arms and body when I hit a driver with a .350" tip shaft as opposed to the .335" tipped driver shaft. From an engineering standpoint, the shaft walls of the larger tip diameter shaft must be stiffer and thinner than the small diameter shaft tip in order for them to come in at the same weights. Next time you are in a store that has uncut new shafts on display, take a close look at the wall thickness of the .350" vs. the .335" tip. There's a good bit more meat on the walls of the thinner tip shaft making them slightly more flexible. Now the flex data contained in the DSFI material I referenced earlier seems to confirm this. The upside of the thicker tip shaft is that it can be more twist-resistant than the thinner shaft. But for "feel", I'll stick with the skinny ones. I find the same applies to irons. I much prefer the tapered tip shafts at .355" than the parallel tip iron shafts with .370" hosels.

This is my experience. The .350 seem sllightly straighter but probably lack a bit of feel.[code]

Lord Helmet wrote:

LOL pk! You coming to Ohio this year? We can battle it out with the DET's!

LH... my club came today, If I don't know any better it's a brand new club... I inspect EVERYWHERE and did not even see a scratch... The only thing is CallayGolfPreowned advertised it as "Diablo Edge Tour" but I do not see any place where it says "Tour"... do you or anyone know?

thanks guys/girls/AC-DC

Never mind... found info on internet

Pky6471 wrote:

Lord Helmet wrote:

LOL pk! You coming to Ohio this year? We can battle it out with the DET's!

LH... my club came today, If I don't know any better it's a brand new club... I inspect EVERYWHERE and did not even see a scratch... The only thing is CallayGolfPreowned advertised it as "Diablo Edge Tour" but I do not see any place where it says "Tour"... do you or anyone know?

thanks guys/girls/AC-DC

Never mind... found info on internet

Callaway is pretty good about grading conservatively IMO. The tour head is all black. The non-tour had some funky feather looking things if I recall. The tour doesnt have an alignment aid. The tour is 440cc I think and looks nice behind the ball. I believe the shaft might say tour on it. Go hit it pk and let me know!

[quote="Lord Helmet"][quote="Pky6471"]

Lord Helmet wrote:

Callaway is pretty good about grading conservatively IMO. The tour head is all black. The non-tour had some funky feather looking things if I recall. The tour doesnt have an alignment aid. The tour is 440cc I think and looks nice behind the ball. I believe the shaft might say tour on it. Go hit it pk and let me know!

This is exactly what I got... will test it out on the range this weekend
http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/306062-callaway-diablo-tour-edge-driver/

[quote="Pky6471"][quote="Lord Helmet"]

Pky6471 wrote:

Lord Helmet wrote:

Callaway is pretty good about grading conservatively IMO. The tour head is all black. The non-tour had some funky feather looking things if I recall. The tour doesnt have an alignment aid. The tour is 440cc I think and looks nice behind the ball. I believe the shaft might say tour on it. Go hit it pk and let me know!

This is exactly what I got... will test it out on the range this weekend
http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/306062-callaway-diablo-tour-edge-driver/

Great! Im planning on taking all 3 of my drivers (909d3, 910d2, and DET) to the range this weekend. Looking to play next Tuesday, as I am off work. Let me know what you think.

[quote="Lord Helmet"][quote="Pky6471"][quote="Lord Helmet"][quote="Pky6471"]

Lord Helmet wrote:

Great! Im planning on taking all 3 of my drivers (909d3, 910d2, and DET) to the range this weekend. Looking to play next Tuesday, as I am off work. Let me know what you think.

I just scored a nice used 909D3 last Friday. The factory VooDoo stiff shaft in it has come out since it is too heavy and low-launching for me but the head is just drop-dead gorgeous at address and feels real solid at impact. What shaft do you have in yours? And as for tee height, I've been playing with that and it seems like both my 909's-- the DComp and now this D3-- like the ball teed a bit lower.

[quote="Mongrel"][quote="Lord Helmet"][quote="Pky6471"][quote="Lord Helmet"]

Pky6471 wrote:

Lord Helmet wrote:

Great! Im planning on taking all 3 of my drivers (909d3, 910d2, and DET) to the range this weekend. Looking to play next Tuesday, as I am off work. Let me know what you think.

I just scored a nice used 909D3 last Friday. The factory VooDoo stiff shaft in it has come out since it is too heavy and low-launching for me but the head is just drop-dead gorgeous at address and feels real solid at impact. What shaft do you have in yours? And as for tee height, I've been playing with that and it seems like both my 909's-- the DComp and now this D3-- like the ball teed a bit lower.

My 909d3 has a grafalloy prolaunch red S flex shaft. I put the top qtr of the ball above the crown at address. I have those t's that are white with the blue middle, 3.25" long. Put the blue part flush w/ the ground. Works good for me.


http://www.golfteesetc.com/pridepts-prolength-314-golf-tees

I also got the 909D3 but only for 2 or 3 months now.

8.5degree with the made for titleist 70 diamana'ahina X-stiff.

Shaft still feels bit whippy for my liking but I am swinging it only at around 80%. There is one thing I must mention that I am feeling with the 909D3 is that this is the first time ever I have felt that the clubface has lost some of its umph. Feels like the sound has changed to. No Physical damage but the feel has worn out...Going after it on few occasions hasnt made the ball go further....


I am eyeing(around 10% chance of buying) a used R11S with 9degree head and legit TP RIP 65 Phenom X stiff....Hitting the club I must say it felt nice.The numbers on screen also showed alot less spin around 2300 RPMS consistently and mishits aroun 1800 RPMs..... But I want to pay 75% off the clubs price...If its still their I will ask the owner for a discount.

Fluffy: you should someone take a close look at your 909D3 head to see if the face hasn't caved in. Since you have the stock made-for shaft, I suspect that your repeated thrashing may have weakened the tip so that it is the shaft and not the head that is suffering the fatigue.

LH... Look what I found on internet. I am surprised that its torque is 5.2. Maybe it works for me, will know today after a range session. So basically the difference is its head + hosel (between tour & regular club)... same shaft ... I have no business of playing a stiff shaft but I want to try to confirm , especially OEM Cally shafts. I have a Cally 3W with system 60 firm flex (Cally called it stiff) and I hit it as well as identical club with system 60 R-flex



Aldila Habanero

Specifications Bend Point Launch Angle Color Shaft Length Torque Weight(gr) Tip Diameter Butt Diameter Parallel Tip Section
Regular Mid/Low Mid/High Black 46" 5.3 60 .335 Parallel .640 2.5"
Stiff Mid/Low Mid/High Black 46" 5.2 62 .335 Parallel .640 2.5"

http://platterivergolf.com/pro1426943.html

================================================================

Well, by all info that I've read, I have no business of playing this DET S-flex with my lousy 82 mph SS... so I carefully taped its head to keep it in 99% new condition if I have to put it on fleabay after a range session... Well, after hitting 10 balls at the range I removed the tape and the rest is history.. I hit a large bucket comparing this DET S-flex with my Cleveland 460cc launcher (55-g Fuji R-flex). 90% of my shots were either straight or baby fades, 10% leaks... I could not be happier... LH should be happy with the IDENTICAL club, except left handed... One more range session tomorrow to confirm, hopefully it's not a fluke

Pky6471 wrote:LH... Look what I found on internet. I am surprised that its torque is 5.2. Maybe it works for me, will know today after a range session. So basically the difference is its head + hosel (between tour & regular club)... same shaft ... I have no business of playing a stiff shaft but I want to try to confirm , especially OEM Cally shafts. I have a Cally 3W with system 60 firm flex (Cally called it stiff) and I hit it as well as identical club with system 60 R-flex



Aldila Habanero

Specifications Bend Point Launch Angle Color Shaft Length Torque Weight(gr) Tip Diameter Butt Diameter Parallel Tip Section
Regular Mid/Low Mid/High Black 46" 5.3 60 .335 Parallel .640 2.5"
Stiff Mid/Low Mid/High Black 46" 5.2 62 .335 Parallel .640 2.5"

http://platterivergolf.com/pro1426943.html

================================================================

Well, by all info that I've read, I have no business of playing this DET S-flex with my lousy 82 mph SS... so I carefully taped its head to keep it in 99% new condition if I have to put it on fleabay after a range session... Well, after hitting 10 balls at the range I removed the tape and the rest is history.. I hit a large bucket comparing this DET S-flex with my Cleveland 460cc launcher (55-g Fuji R-flex). 90% of my shots were either straight or baby fades, 10% leaks... I could not be happier... LH should be happy with the IDENTICAL club, except left handed... One more range session tomorrow to confirm, hopefully it's not a fluke

I re-gripped my lefty DET and was hitting some great shots with it yesterday. Love mine. Will be a titleist/DET driver combo for me in 2013. Playing either tomorrow or Wednesday, depending on weather.

Lord Helmet wrote:I re-gripped my lefty DET and was hitting some great shots with it yesterday. Love mine. Will be a titleist/DET driver combo for me in 2013. Playing either tomorrow or Wednesday, depending on weather.

What grip do U use now? mine is still brand new so I don't have to regrip until next season. I used to like the Golf Pride New Decade Multi Coumpound Grips , it's excellent under wet conditions, but I found it's a little hard for me. I like Golf Pride Tour Wrap 2G Standard Black Grip, tacky and "squeezable" I wish it come with cord at the bottom

Pky6471 wrote:

Lord Helmet wrote:I re-gripped my lefty DET and was hitting some great shots with it yesterday. Love mine. Will be a titleist/DET driver combo for me in 2013. Playing either tomorrow or Wednesday, depending on weather.

What grip do U use now? mine is still brand new so I don't have to regrip until next season. I used to like the Golf Pride New Decade Multi Coumpound Grips , it's excellent under wet conditions, but I found it's a little hard for me. I like Golf Pride Tour Wrap 2G Standard Black Grip, tacky and "squeezable" I wish it come with cord at the bottom

I use the Lamkin X-10. No nonsense, great feeling grip. Cheap too. I put 2 wraps under my left hand as well (I play lefty so reverse that for a righty golfer). The X-10 is a nice all around grip! Im not a Golf Pride fan - Lamkins feel better to me.

Lord Helmet wrote:I use the Lamkin X-10. No nonsense, great feeling grip. Cheap too. I put 2 wraps under my left hand as well (I play lefty so reverse that for a righty golfer). The X-10 is a nice all around grip! Im not a Golf Pride fan - Lamkins feel better to me.

Thanks... it's good to know. I have too many new grips (less than $1.50 each on sales at end of season) so I have to use them first. Maybe I should narrow down to one type of grip that I feel best with.

I seem to have settled into the best grips with lots of experimentation and a bit of luck. For driver, the absolute best for me is the Winn DriTac Wrap mid-sized. It is a soft feeling grip and weighs about 25 grams. Coupled with a shaft weighing around 60 grams cut to length, I get a total driver weight of under 290 grams and a perfect feeling of balance with my Titleist 909DComp. I've tried other heavier grips like the Golfpride DD and Tour Wrap in regular thickness but I get the lefts bad with those. Something about the thicker and softer grip that negates the OTT pulls. If I can eliminate the left side off the tee, I will score good and if not I won't. Plain and simple. Now on my irons, the Golf Pride Tour Wrap (the ones that look like they are wet and come in red, white and black) are perfect when I wrap one layer of black duct tape on the shaft where my right hand goes before installing the grip. Without that one wrap of duct tape, I will be much more susceptable to iron pulls which are bad juju, but not quite as bad a juju as pulling my drives. It amazes me how 1/16" more grip diameter can turn my driving game from chopper to player.

Mongrel wrote:I seem to have settled into the best grips with lots of experimentation and a bit of luck. For driver, the absolute best for me is the Winn DriTac Wrap mid-sized. It is a soft feeling grip and weighs about 25 grams. Coupled with a shaft weighing around 60 grams cut to length, I get a total driver weight of under 290 grams and a perfect feeling of balance with my Titleist 909DComp. I've tried other heavier grips like the Golfpride DD and Tour Wrap in regular thickness but I get the lefts bad with those. Something about the thicker and softer grip that negates the OTT pulls. If I can eliminate the left side off the tee, I will score good and if not I won't. Plain and simple. Now on my irons, the Golf Pride Tour Wrap (the ones that look like they are wet and come in red, white and black) are perfect when I wrap one layer of black duct tape on the shaft where my right hand goes before installing the grip. Without that one wrap of duct tape, I will be much more susceptable to iron pulls which are bad juju, but not quite as bad a juju as pulling my drives. It amazes me how 1/16" more grip diameter can turn my driving game from chopper to player.

Amazing isnt it. I use the extra wrap under my left hand to accomplish the same thing.

I don't need it with the Winn oversized grips but do need it with the iron grips. Its funny but I need the regular width for my left (top) hand and the build up for the bottom hand. I think that in the two years I've been doing my own club making, I've spent more on the bloody grips that shafts. Hopefully I've got every stick sorted now because those freaking grips keep on getting more expensive.

Hey PK. Took the DET, 909d3, and 910d2 to the range yesterday for extensive session. The DET was the longest of the bunch, launched slightly higher than the 909d3, and felt effortless. The 909d3, to me, needs to be swung a little harder to produce same results.

The 910d2 produced the highest ballflight and was the shortest (too much spin I suspect). I fussed around with the adjusting to see what I could come up with. Helped a little but wasnt near the 909 or DET.

The DET was also BY FAR the straightest of the bunch. I can hit a high cut with it. I can hit a nice fade with it. I can even turn it over a little (which is odd for me). Or I can just T it up and let it rip - wants to go straight. Lovely solid titanium solid feel as well. The 909 felt more solid than the 910.

So the DET is the longest, most forgiving, and easiest for me to manipulate if I want to, which I usually dont. Straight is perfectly fine. The DET/Aldila Habanero combo, while not a match for me on paper, is the best for me in real life.

Lord Helmet wrote:Hey PK. Took the DET, 909d3, and 910d2 to the range yesterday for extensive session. The DET was the longest of the bunch, launched slightly higher than the 909d3, and felt effortless. The 909d3, to me, needs to be swung a little harder to produce same results.

The 910d2 produced the highest ballflight and was the shortest (too much spin I suspect). I fussed around with the adjusting to see what I could come up with. Helped a little but wasnt near the 909 or DET.

The DET was also BY FAR the straightest of the bunch. I can hit a high cut with it. I can hit a nice fade with it. I can even turn it over a little (which is odd for me). Or I can just T it up and let it rip - wants to go straight. Lovely solid titanium solid feel as well. The 909 felt more solid than the 910.

So the DET is the longest, most forgiving, and easiest for me to manipulate if I want to, which I usually dont. Straight is perfectly fine. The DET/Aldila Habanero combo, while not a match for me on paper, is the best for me in real life.

Thanks LH... now U give me more confidence, I really like this same club after 2 range sessions. Last 2 times I had 1/2 ball above the crown , tomorrow I will try all ball above the crown at T , I should be able to determine where the G-spot is, right? I have 3 rounds planned for the first wk of May in around Ann Arbor MI, so I need to feel comfy with this club. My MI friend just bought TM R11S driver and he swears by it... I have to beat the sh$$$t out of him with our DET


The DET was also BY FAR the straightest of the bunch I sure could attest to your statement. I was at the range yesterday trying to find the G-spot of the DET driver. It turned out that I hit best when bottom of a ball is barely at the crown of this driver (I used to have 1/2 ball above the crown level... but that was with 10.5* R-flex driver). I was afraid that I would ballơon it but it never did, ball's trajectory was excellent... Best $47.99 investment that I ever made in golf