The fifth major

That pic FD has posted says it all. What theatre and drama. A superb stadium course designed for championship golf, huge crowds and the third strongest field of the year behind the Opens. If it ever gets major status it would leap frog the pga and masters straight to number 3. Players would be skipping the Masters because it didnt fit in with their preparation for this event. The name really says it all, no other tourney could rightly be known as the players championship.

Forgetting about history, prestige and resume impact, The Players might be tops in watchability. For those who've never played or seen the course, do so and it will catapult this tournament in your mind. 17 may have the most apparent drama, but many holes contain similar risks, just more subtle but just as interesting. Amazing course in amazing environs and the best tournament course I've seen by a lot.

Lorenzzo wrote:Forgetting about history, prestige and resume impact, The Players might be tops in watchability. For those who've never played or seen the course, do so and it will catapult this tournament in your mind. 17 may have the most apparent drama, but many holes contain similar risks, just more subtle but just as interesting. Amazing course in amazing environs and the best tournament course I've seen by a lot.

I've never played nor seen it but have watched the weekend coverage since the first one. However, thanks to the advent of the Golf Channel, I've been watching coverage after I get home from work and get to see the rest of the course since they go off split tees. I think that you are right about the shot qualities required to score well on it and, quite frankly, I like watching them play it more than Augusta National. I also noticed that the winner's take is just over a mil seven. That's some serious coin and probably more than any event except maybe those several held over where you can have up to four wives and girlfriends too.

Mongrel wrote:

Lorenzzo wrote:Forgetting about history, prestige and resume impact, The Players might be tops in watchability. For those who've never played or seen the course, do so and it will catapult this tournament in your mind. 17 may have the most apparent drama, but many holes contain similar risks, just more subtle but just as interesting. Amazing course in amazing environs and the best tournament course I've seen by a lot.

I've never played nor seen it but have watched the weekend coverage since the first one. However, thanks to the advent of the Golf Channel, I've been watching coverage after I get home from work and get to see the rest of the course since they go off split tees. I think that you are right about the shot qualities required to score well on it and, quite frankly, I like watching them play it more than Augusta National. I also noticed that the winner's take is just over a mil seven. That's some serious coin and probably more than any event except maybe those several held over where you can have up to four wives and girlfriends too.

Here's the thing about 17. Pure and simple it's a choke test. I went there several years in a row for junior invitationals and have played the course myself. The juniors rarely rinsed their balls on 17. Except when the wind is howling it's an easy shot for a pro unless they gag. Same can be said for the drive on 18 and second shots on par fives if a player goes for it in two.

I hated Pete Dye before I made it to Sawgrass. I still hate him but figure God moved his hand when he was designing and re-designing it.

Why this will NEVER be a major. I just clicked on PGA Leaderboard and see that a veteran dude is five under through eight and now just three behind Sergio. Jeff Maggert. Does this championship award any kind of jacket?

Mongrel wrote:Why this will NEVER be a major. I just clicked on PGA Leaderboard and see that a veteran dude is five under through eight and now just three behind Sergio. Jeff Maggert. Does this championship award any kind of jacket?

It's worse than that. If Maggert were ever to win a tournament it would be the end of golf as we know it. But I'm willing to bet golf is safe.

Mongrel wrote:Why this will NEVER be a major. I just clicked on PGA Leaderboard and see that a veteran dude is five under through eight and now just three behind Sergio. Jeff Maggert. Does this championship award any kind of jacket?

Hey, a few years ago Norman was leading the British Open after the 3rd round. Last year at the US Open some 17 year old kid who looks like a member of the Dungeons and Dragons club was near the top of the leaderboard. Maggert is a heck of a player but is getting older. He will fade tomorrow. I just hope he doesn't have a bunker shot where the ball hits the lip and then bounces back and hits him again.

Sergio and Tiger sure seem cold to one another. Sergio definitely has some kind of chip on his shoulder. Not just toward Tiger but toward golf fans, announcers, interviewers, etc. It's like he feels that it's everyone else's fault that he hasn't one a few majors, much less one. Get over it dude and start smiling for crying out loud.

Does Davis Love III ever wear anything other than white pants?

Someone should tell Lee Westwood that the idea is to win and not come in third.

T think that Sergio has the heebie-jeebies every time he plays in this country and it is mainly due to the crass plebian behaviour of a small percentage of gallery members. I watched reruns of yesterday's doings when Tiger and he were preparing to hit their second shots to the par 5. Tiger was on the left side in the rough and Sergio was on the right side. When tournament players get case of the rabbit ears, you know that they are totally out of synch and prone to disasters on the next shot that can carry through the rest of the round.

I did not mean to demean Maggert. He is old and can still play. What tourney was that self-inflicted bunker ball in? A Masters? I was rooting for him then and was disappointed when it happened. Didn't he win the Waste Product Management back in '97?

I guess the feud continued this morning with Woods and Sergio. In all fairness to Sergio, Woods has been a major dick to him every since the '99 PGA Championship. In my opinion, Woods knew exactly what he was doing when he pulled the 5 wood out of the bag to cause a roar in the crowd, thus distracting Sergio in the middle of his shot. Sergio has a right to complain about it.

Woods has always treated guys like Sergio with coldness and aloofness. He knows that Sergio could have been a major threat during his career and he's done everything possible to intimidate him and never give him any respect. He's done the same thing to Mickelson and Ernie Els.

If there's one thing I don't like about Tiger it's been this behavior. I don't care if you treat reporters like crap, in fact I condone it. What I don't like is treating your fellow players like they are beneath you. Well, maybe with the exception of Mickelson. Phil is annoying as hell.

I think Woods is going to win this tournament but it would be very cool if Sergio won it instead. I've always like Sergio.

Lorenzzo wrote:

Mongrel wrote:

Lorenzzo wrote:Forgetting about history, prestige and resume impact, The Players might be tops in watchability. For those who've never played or seen the course, do so and it will catapult this tournament in your mind. 17 may have the most apparent drama, but many holes contain similar risks, just more subtle but just as interesting. Amazing course in amazing environs and the best tournament course I've seen by a lot.

I've never played nor seen it but have watched the weekend coverage since the first one. However, thanks to the advent of the Golf Channel, I've been watching coverage after I get home from work and get to see the rest of the course since they go off split tees. I think that you are right about the shot qualities required to score well on it and, quite frankly, I like watching them play it more than Augusta National. I also noticed that the winner's take is just over a mil seven. That's some serious coin and probably more than any event except maybe those several held over where you can have up to four wives and girlfriends too.

Here's the thing about 17. Pure and simple it's a choke test. I went there several years in a row for junior invitationals and have played the course myself. The juniors rarely rinsed their balls on 17. Except when the wind is howling it's an easy shot for a pro unless they gag. Same can be said for the drive on 18 and second shots on par fives if a player goes for it in two.

I hated Pete Dye before I made it to Sawgrass. I still hate him but figure God moved his hand when he was designing and re-designing it.

I have never been there or played it but I think your observations are spot on. It will never be high on the list of great courses because it lacks the age and classic design of older courses, but as a test of skill and nerve under championship pressure it has no peers. 17 is an easy hole under normal conditions at 130, but there is no where to bail out, it forces you to hit the green or reload. And when the wind gets up and they get it running quick it is transformed into a beast. And 18 is a cracker, a real risk/ reward monster that tempts players to biteoff more of the left to leave an easier approach, but for those pussies who bail out right they are faced with a long approach with water very much in play long and/or left. Closing holes just dont get better than that.

Player wrote:

Lorenzzo wrote:

Mongrel wrote:

Lorenzzo wrote:Forgetting about history, prestige and resume impact, The Players might be tops in watchability. For those who've never played or seen the course, do so and it will catapult this tournament in your mind. 17 may have the most apparent drama, but many holes contain similar risks, just more subtle but just as interesting. Amazing course in amazing environs and the best tournament course I've seen by a lot.

I've never played nor seen it but have watched the weekend coverage since the first one. However, thanks to the advent of the Golf Channel, I've been watching coverage after I get home from work and get to see the rest of the course since they go off split tees. I think that you are right about the shot qualities required to score well on it and, quite frankly, I like watching them play it more than Augusta National. I also noticed that the winner's take is just over a mil seven. That's some serious coin and probably more than any event except maybe those several held over where you can have up to four wives and girlfriends too.

Op
Here's the thing about 17. Pure and simple it's a choke test. I went there several years in a row for junior invitationals and have played the course myself. The juniors rarely rinsed their balls on 17. Except when the wind is howling it's an easy shot for a pro unless they gag. Same can be said for the drive on 18 and second shots on par fives if a player goes for it in two.

I hated Pete Dye before I made it to Sawgrass. I still hate him but figure God moved his hand when he was designing and re-designing it.

I have never been there or played it but I think your observations are spot on. It will never be high on the list of great courses because it lacks the age and classic design of older courses, but as a test of skill and nerve under championship pressure it has no peers. 17 is an easy hole under normal conditions at 130, but there is no where to bail out, it forces you to hit the green or reload. And when the wind gets up and they get it running quick it is transformed into a beast. And 18 is a cracker, a real risk/ reward monster that tempts players to biteoff more of the left to leave an easier approach, but for those pussies who bail out right they are faced with a long approach with water very much in play long and/or left. Closing holes just dont get better than that.

As if to prove my argument Sergio has obliged with another spectacular choke job on 17 & 18. What other course creates such a perfect environment for the really big choke? Sergio is the gift that just keeps on giving. Just when you think he's past it, he comes out with another epic choke in a big event. That choke job alone makes the Players worthy of major status. I defy anyone to say that wasnt the most entertaining finish this year.

Just saw the footage, Sergio is an idiot as well as a choke artist. That front right pin was a Sunday sucker pin that any pro with any semblance of a brain would leave well alone and go for a two putt par, but El chokeo took the bait hook line and sinker. TWICE. Didnt see his last hole choke, but man must he be in a dark bad place tonite after that effort. This will take some getting over, it was more than a regular choke. It was a complete physical and mental melt down.

I have to disagree with your assessment of the pin placement on 17. Did you happen to see the young Swede's shot? A hard hold-off fade that nestled down to the right of the hole? That was one of the most brilliant and gutsiest par 3 tee shots I've ever seen. Of course the kid cuts all his shots so it was probably fully ingrained in his repetoire.

Player wrote:Just saw the footage, Sergio is an idiot as well as a choke artist. That front right pin was a Sunday sucker pin that any pro with any semblance of a brain would leave well alone and go for a two putt par, but El chokeo took the bait hook line and sinker. TWICE. Didnt see his last hole choke, but man must he be in a dark bad place tonite after that effort. This will take some getting over, it was more than a regular choke. It was a complete physical and mental melt down.

This is why we need to pull for Sergio, he's good TV. First the "you pulled a club, wah, wah...." episode and then the choke finish. If he wasn't such a douche it might tug at the heart strings. Instead it serves as comforting evidence the universe works the way we hope it does. I'll just say those with any personal experience whatsoever with him or his immediate family who were at the tournament would have removed all forms of lubrication Sergio might have had access to at the finish.

I had the Players on but wasn't really watching every shot, but I heard huge applause that got my attention. It was the reaction for Sergio's first water ball on 17.
The look on his face was priceless. Then, more applause on his next waterball, and a pretty good roar for his duck hook on 18. What a spoiled little b!tch he is.

I didn't like the applause on the 17th. That was BS. Fans shouldn't act that way no matter how much they dislike a player. What Sergio said about Tiger didn't warrant that kind of response from the crowd. Tiger hasn't been nice to Sergio, ever.

I don't think it was a choke as much as it was a bad decision. I think he was trying to win the tournament right there and I can't fault him for that. He took a risk and it didn't work out. The next shot meant nothing and neither did the drive on the 18th.

FamousDavis wrote:I didn't like the applause on the 17th. That was BS. Fans shouldn't act that way no matter how much they dislike a player. What Sergio said about Tiger didn't warrant that kind of response from the crowd. Tiger hasn't been nice to Sergio, ever.

I don't think it was a choke as much as it was a bad decision. I think he was trying to win the tournament right there and I can't fault him for that. He took a risk and it didn't work out. The next shot meant nothing and neither did the drive on the 18th.

A bad decision is a choke, just as much as poor execution and his shot on 17 was a bit of both. The duck hook on 18 meant plenty and was another big choke. If you look at his career as a hole he is possibly the worst choker ever. Norman was a choker but his chokes were usually very marginal, shaved putts down the stretch or other guys hitting miraculous shots to beat him. Norman also came through for the win plenty of times, Sergio is almost a guaramteed choke every time he is in contention and his chokes look like a 27 capper hacks, not slight mis cues.

And I think the cheering for his bad shots is great fun and thoroughly deserved.

FamousDavis wrote:I didn't like the applause on the 17th. That was BS. Fans shouldn't act that way no matter how much they dislike a player. What Sergio said about Tiger didn't warrant that kind of response from the crowd. Tiger hasn't been nice to Sergio, ever.

I don't think it was a choke as much as it was a bad decision. I think he was trying to win the tournament right there and I can't fault him for that. He took a risk and it didn't work out. The next shot meant nothing and neither did the drive on the 18th.

I was pretty impressed that he acted pretty mature about the whole thing. In the past he would have attacked the tee marker or thrown a club or maybe both.

I've also heard interviews of players that say the wind, even slight breeze can be very tricky on that whole. If he would have played a nine iron, he might have put it over the green. He took and chance and lost. So what. The drive on 18 was irrelevant. He was already done once he lost on 17.

Playa, if you recall a few years back Sergio was in a playoff at the TPC and on the first playoff hole on #17 he stuck his shot within 10 feet of the hole. That was absolutely clutch. The difference between a career shot and a horrible one on that hole is tiny. There is no margin for error with that pin position if you are trying to get it close. I commend him for trying to win it outright on that hole.

On another subject, Tiger's first putt on 17 was pretty incredible. That looked like the kind of putt that most of us wouldn't have gotten within 15 feet of the hole. Most of the pros I saw putting from there hit it 10 feet past the hole. Tiger is the best putter to have ever lived.

FD, Sergio choked on 17. He was tied with Tiger at -13 right? I think you've got to play 17 and 18 for pars when the guy you are tied with is still on the course. Now if Tiger had been in the clubhouse with a 1 shot lead, yeah you take that chance. The hole was 135 yards long and it was around 120 to carry to the front on the line he hit it. That's a pretty big mistake. I could see it if he was going right at the stick, but he was playing out to the left. The unknown Swedish dude hit a legit shot that landed right of the pin. I doubt that was on purpose.

Horseballs wrote:FD, Sergio choked on 17. He was tied with Tiger at -13 right? I think you've got to play 17 and 18 for pars when the guy you are tied with is still on the course. Now if Tiger had been in the clubhouse with a 1 shot lead, yeah you take that chance. The hole was 135 yards long and it was around 120 to carry to the front on the line he hit it. That's a pretty big mistake. I could see it if he was going right at the stick, but he was playing out to the left. The unknown Swedish dude hit a legit shot that landed right of the pin. I doubt that was on purpose.

Of course that logic works if Sergio thinks he can beat tiger in match play. Maybe he knew he needed to put a fork in tiger.

FamousDavis wrote:Playa, if you recall a few years back Sergio was in a playoff at the TPC and on the first playoff hole on #17 he stuck his shot within 10 feet of the hole. That was absolutely clutch. The difference between a career shot and a horrible one on that hole is tiny. There is no margin for error with that pin position if you are trying to get it close. I commend him for trying to win it outright on that hole.

On another subject, Tiger's first putt on 17 was pretty incredible. That looked like the kind of putt that most of us wouldn't have gotten within 15 feet of the hole. Most of the pros I saw putting from there hit it 10 feet past the hole. Tiger is the best putter to have ever lived.

Tiger's pop up drive on, what 15, was pretty special too. I've watched the replays and I think he got an early birthday present on that one. He should have been re-teeing for 3.

Poe4soul wrote:

Horseballs wrote:FD, Sergio choked on 17. He was tied with Tiger at -13 right? I think you've got to play 17 and 18 for pars when the guy you are tied with is still on the course. Now if Tiger had been in the clubhouse with a 1 shot lead, yeah you take that chance. The hole was 135 yards long and it was around 120 to carry to the front on the line he hit it. That's a pretty big mistake. I could see it if he was going right at the stick, but he was playing out to the left. The unknown Swedish dude hit a legit shot that landed right of the pin. I doubt that was on purpose.

Of course that logic works if Sergio thinks he can beat tiger in match play. Maybe he knew he needed to put a fork in tiger.

Would not fear of a play-off inducing either a whiff or poor targeting be tantamount to a choke?

Zo, that's my take on it too. When faced with the prospect of being humiliated in a playoff directly, Sergio chose to end it early and definitively.
And, though I'm no Tiger apologist, this tournament indicates that Tiger is back. He won so many tournaments in the 2000's by everyone choking all around him. This one was no different.

Lorenzzo wrote:

Poe4soul wrote:

Horseballs wrote:FD, Sergio choked on 17. He was tied with Tiger at -13 right? I think you've got to play 17 and 18 for pars when the guy you are tied with is still on the course. Now if Tiger had been in the clubhouse with a 1 shot lead, yeah you take that chance. The hole was 135 yards long and it was around 120 to carry to the front on the line he hit it. That's a pretty big mistake. I could see it if he was going right at the stick, but he was playing out to the left. The unknown Swedish dude hit a legit shot that landed right of the pin. I doubt that was on purpose.

Of course that logic works if Sergio thinks he can't beat tiger in match play. Maybe he knew he needed to put a fork in tiger.

Would not fear of a play-off inducing either a whiff or poor targeting be tantamount to a choke?

My sentence was f'ed. It should have read as edited. What a dope, or did I choke?

I don't think so. A choke to me isn't playing aggressive, which is what I would say he did. A choke with that pin would be playing to the center of the green and sending the ball to the lumber yard. Understanding your game, and trying to execute a way to the top isn't a choke in my book. In fact, he could have played ultra conservative and probably made it to a playoff like zach or one of the other drones.