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    Belly putters, a thought

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    edgey

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    Belly putters, a thought

    Post  edgey on Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:32 pm

    Given that the USGA/R&A are going to ban them in 2016 I had a thought just now

    Why dont you see them on the LPGA?

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    Horseballs

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    Re: Belly putters, a thought

    Post  Horseballs on Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:41 pm

    edgey wrote:Given that the USGA/R&A are going to ban them in 2016 I had a thought just now

    Why dont you see them on the LPGA?

    I saw this same question posed in one of the golf mags. Their answer was that the players don't have access to the same fitting process on tour that the men do. Seemed like a bunch of shit to me.
    I personally don't see them on the LPGA because I don't watch the LPGA. They could all be using them for all I know.
    Maybe tonyj5 can chime in.
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    Mongrel

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    Re: Belly putters, a thought

    Post  Mongrel on Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:49 pm

    The greens that LPGA plays are considerably slower than those all the males play on all their tours. Slow the greens down for the boys and those long putters would fade into the sunset. The argument that guys with bad backs have saved their careers with the long putters is bovine feces to me. If your back is bad, now in the hell are you going to be able to hit even a wedge out of gnarly rough? Please.
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    edgey

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    Re: Belly putters, a thought

    Post  edgey on Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:57 pm

    On the basis that even girls are too ashamed to be seen using them I have another question

    Should their use by a male mean the automatic revocation of their man card?
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    Horseballs

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    Re: Belly putters, a thought

    Post  Horseballs on Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:59 pm

    edgey wrote:On the basis that even girls are too ashamed to be seen using them I have another question

    Should their use by a male mean the automatic revocation of their man card?

    Their use has always required the revocation of their man card. This isn't a new development. The question on the table is whether or not to give the USGA and R&A their man cards back. I say no.
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    Olderplayer

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    Re: Belly putters, a thought

    Post  Olderplayer on Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:07 pm

    It's funny how perception changes easily. I always viewed pros wielding long putters as awkward, unnatural putters who struggled on the greens. Now since the rule change, even though it is not in force yet they all just look like cheaters to me.
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    edgey

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    Re: Belly putters, a thought

    Post  edgey on Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:16 pm

    I have to ask

    These putters have been around for 25yrs. Why ban them now, why not 25 years ago FFS
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    Olderplayer

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    Re: Belly putters, a thought

    Post  Olderplayer on Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:23 pm

    edgey wrote:I have to ask

    These putters have been around for 25yrs. Why ban them now, why not 25 years ago FFS
    I think it was viewed by the powers that be as a fringe method used by has-been old pros. There was an element of sympathy for the guys that were "forced" to use such a monstrosity.
    Now that the method is starting to take over the way the ball is putted at the top level of the game action needs to be taken.


    Last edited by Olderplayer on Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Horseballs

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    Re: Belly putters, a thought

    Post  Horseballs on Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:23 pm

    edgey wrote:I have to ask

    These putters have been around for 25yrs. Why ban them now, why not 25 years ago FFS

    Because up until recently, their users were looked down upon and pitied by the able golfers who putted normally. It was almost a concession to the absolute worst putters out there. The belly putters held up their end of the bargain by remaining small in number and by not winning anything. Then the use proliferated, became less ridiculed, and people started winning majors.
    It had to be stopped. I see high schoolers using those abominations and I just cringe.
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    Olderplayer

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    Re: Belly putters, a thought

    Post  Olderplayer on Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:26 pm

    Horseballs wrote:
    edgey wrote:I have to ask

    These putters have been around for 25yrs. Why ban them now, why not 25 years ago FFS

    Because up until recently, their users were looked down upon and pitied by the able golfers who putted normally. It was almost a concession to the absolute worst putters out there. The belly putters held up their end of the bargain by remaining small in number and by not winning anything. Then the use proliferated, became less ridiculed, and people started winning majors.
    It had to be stopped. I see high schoolers using those abominations and I just cringe.
    I see we agree about something. That's a bit scary.
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    jt1135

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    Re: Belly putters, a thought

    Post  jt1135 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:33 pm

    Is it just belly putters or are long putters included? I would think women would have a natural feel for the long putter because they have the canyon to rest it in. Well, at least some of them do.
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    FamousDavis
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    Re: Belly putters, a thought

    Post  FamousDavis on Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:09 pm

    edgey wrote:I have to ask

    These putters have been around for 25yrs. Why ban them now, why not 25 years ago FFS

    Whenever I see a question like this I immediately look for the knee jerk response. The most common response for banning long putters is that belly and long putters, when anchored to the body give the player an unfair advantage.

    The next argument for banning is that players who were putting poorly started using anchored putters and their putting improved. This is evidence that the anchored putter makes the game easier.

    However, if you really want to hear the truth of why the USGA is trying to ban anchoring, then you have to look at the facts. First, belly and long putters have been around for a long time. That's a fact.

    Freddy Couples has been using one for many years and has been very successful on the Champions Tour yet we heard no complaints. People were happy for Adam Scott when he started putting better with an anchored putter.

    So, you have to ask yourself, what person and/or event put the recent actions of the USGA in motion?

    The reason the USGA is changing the rules to not allow anchoring is: Keegan Bradley
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    Mongrel

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    Re: Belly putters, a thought

    Post  Mongrel on Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:01 pm

    Besides Sam Snead, the most notorious professional case of the yips was suffered by Bernhard Langer who went to the long putter years ago. It turned his game around and he is still pocketing the cash on the AARP Tour. Naturalich, I have affinity with Bernhard and would hate to see him suffer after the ban. By the same token, Young Bradley is much more likely to be a frequent image on my TV screen in the few years I have left so all I have to say is, Tough Titties,Bernie.


    Last edited by Mostly German on Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:01 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : speiling errar)
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    Kiwigolfer

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    Re: Belly putters, a thought

    Post  Kiwigolfer on Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:08 am

    I thought they were just banning the putter that is anchored to your body such as the belly putter. If those broomstick monstrosities are held in both hands away from your body is it illegal or not?
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    Olderplayer

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    Re: Belly putters, a thought

    Post  Olderplayer on Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:20 am

    Kiwigolfer wrote:I thought they were just banning the putter that is anchored to your body such as the belly putter. If those broomstick monstrosities are held in both hands away from your body is it illegal or not?
    They are banning neither the belly or the broomstick putters. They are banning the act of anchoring to any part of the body with the exception of the forearm.
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    FamousDavis
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    Re: Belly putters, a thought

    Post  FamousDavis on Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:21 am

    Kiwigolfer wrote:I thought they were just banning the putter that is anchored to your body such as the belly putter. If those broomstick monstrosities are held in both hands away from your body is it illegal or not?

    The abbreviated explanation is the rule pertains to not allowing a player to anchor the putter to any part of his body The USGA is not banning any type of particular equipment. Yes, you can use a belly putter or long putter and hold it away from you to putt. Try it. It would defeat the whole purpose. The rule is more involved than what I wrote. You can't use your fist against your chin while holding the putter, etc. The one thing you can do, that I've seen other people actually put into practice many years ago, is to stand facing the hole and putt side saddle.
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    Lorenzzo

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    Re: Belly putters, a thought

    Post  Lorenzzo on Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:37 am

    LPGA players aren't able to use broomstick putters because their tits get in the way. In theory they could use belly putters but it would be uncomfortably similar to getting poked.

    FD's right, they're really just trying to ban Keegan Bradley.
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    Fluffy

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    Re: Belly putters, a thought

    Post  Fluffy on Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:49 am

    Olderplayer wrote:
    Kiwigolfer wrote:I thought they were just banning the putter that is anchored to your body such as the belly putter. If those broomstick monstrosities are held in both hands away from your body is it illegal or not?
    They are banning neither the belly or the broomstick putters. They are banning the act of anchoring to any part of the body with the exception of the forearm.

    OP is right,the putters hasnt been banned. the TECHNIQUEE has been banned of anchoring.
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    pingman360

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    Re: Belly putters, a thought

    Post  pingman360 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:37 pm

    Here's a thought....

    As a professional playing in tournaments where anchoring is not uncommon occurance this is a change that could potentially help by simply eliminating, or at least making it more difficult for some of the competition. However........ I don't agree with the propsed rule at all. The USA and r&a have what would appear as almost no scientific evidence that anchoring UNIVERSALLY makes it easier to putt. Does it assist some players, of course, but I would contest that if the rule were flipped and EVERYONE was required to anchor the putter in some fashion. More players would struggle and putt worse on the greens.

    Some players putt better anchored some putt better by not....... If it helped everyone, they would all be using that type stroke.
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    Olderplayer

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    Re: Belly putters, a thought

    Post  Olderplayer on Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:11 pm

    pingman360 wrote:Here's a thought....

    As a professional playing in tournaments where anchoring is not uncommon occurance this is a change that could potentially help by simply eliminating, or at least making it more difficult for some of the competition. However........ I don't agree with the propsed rule at all. The USA and r&a have what would appear as almost no scientific evidence that anchoring UNIVERSALLY makes it easier to putt. Does it assist some players, of course, but I would contest that if the rule were flipped and EVERYONE was required to anchor the putter in some fashion. More players would struggle and putt worse on the greens.

    Some players putt better anchored some putt better by not....... If it helped everyone, they would all be using that type stroke.
    The rule was not bought in because it was perceived that anchoring makes it easier to putt. It was instituted because an anchored stoke in the opinion of the rule makers does not constitute a proper stroke with the club, (using the arms in a free flowing manner). Therefore "not in the spirit of the game"
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    pingman360

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    Re: Belly putters, a thought

    Post  pingman360 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:37 pm

    Olderplayer wrote:
    pingman360 wrote:Here's a thought....

    As a professional playing in tournaments where anchoring is not uncommon occurance this is a change that could potentially help by simply eliminating, or at least making it more difficult for some of the competition. However........ I don't agree with the propsed rule at all. The USA and r&a have what would appear as almost no scientific evidence that anchoring UNIVERSALLY makes it easier to putt. Does it assist some players, of course, but I would contest that if the rule were flipped and EVERYONE was required to anchor the putter in some fashion. More players would struggle and putt worse on the greens.

    Some players putt better anchored some putt better by not....... If it helped everyone, they would all be using that type stroke.
    The rule was not bought in because it was perceived that anchoring makes it easier to putt. It was instituted because an anchored stoke in the opinion of the rule makers does not constitute a proper stroke with the club, (using the arms in a free flowing manner). Therefore "not in the spirit of the game"

    or in essence assisted a player...............

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    Mongrel

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    Re: Belly putters, a thought

    Post  Mongrel on Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:27 pm

    Lorenzzo wrote:LPGA players aren't able to use broomstick putters because their tits get in the way. In theory they could use belly putters but it would be uncomfortably similar to getting poked.

    FD's right, they're really just trying to ban Keegan Bradley.

    95% of the LPGA players have smaller tits than 85% of the guys on the senior tour using those putters and some of the PGA guys too. Wonder what Colin Montgomerie is using these days?
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    FamousDavis
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    Re: Belly putters, a thought

    Post  FamousDavis on Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:55 pm

    I'm extremely impressed with how the USGA & R&A have handled this issue. In fact, I was surprised. I thought they would fold out of fear of retaliation or lawsuits. That's why I thought it was a pleasant surpirse to see the USGA take a hard stance on a very important rule.

    Everything about belly putters and long putters is wrong and against the spirit of the game. They are a crutch to help poor putters putt better. That should not be allowed. I don't believe Bradley, Simpson or Els would have won their recent majors if not for the belly putter.

    Pingman, your attempt at logic is flawed. You say that if everyone used belly or long putters then they wouldn't necessarily putt better. That statement is completely irrelevant. Nobody is saying that belly putters or long putters are the best equipment for putting. What people are saying, is that people who have been putting poorly show marked improvement when having switched to a belly putter. That simply means that long putters are better for people who struggle with a standard length putter.

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    FreakOfNature

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    Re: Belly putters, a thought

    Post  FreakOfNature on Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:26 am

    Anchoring the putter to the body solves a very specific problem - it eliminates "jitters" in the stroke. Those same yips are the reason some people suck at putting using a non-anchored method.

    However, that alone does not prove that anchored putting will be more successful than non-anchored putting. It just proves that the anchored method provides an advantage to those players who struggle using the non-anchored method due to "jitters" in their stroke. It takes the nerves out of the putting game for the most nervous of players and allows them to compete on an even playing field with those who don't suffer from that particular handicap.

    Since sucking at golf is supposed to be what keeps lesser players from beating better players, it is unfair to compensate for a player's inherent disadvantage by specifically allowing equipment which removes or nullifies that disadvantage. It is completely in keeping with the spirit of the game to disallow techniques or equipment which isn't advantageous to ALL PLAYERS, but only advantageous to a specific few with a common disadvantage.

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