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    More Guns Bought after Obama was re-elected (?)

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    jt1135

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    Re: More Guns Bought after Obama was re-elected (?)

    Post  jt1135 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:57 pm

    I blame everything on Dr. Spock. That quack with his how to raise kids theories ruined america. We didn't have all these issues amongst our generation. Don't spank the child, put him in a time out. Instead of forcefully dealing with problems we have become a society that pampers and gladhands everybody. No wonder most people are so pussified.
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    Poe4soul

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    Re: More Guns Bought after Obama was re-elected (?)

    Post  Poe4soul on Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:20 pm

    jt1135 wrote:I blame everything on Dr. Spock. That quack with his how to raise kids theories ruined america. We didn't have all these issues amongst our generation. Don't spank the child, put him in a time out. Instead of forcefully dealing with problems we have become a society that pampers and gladhands everybody. No wonder most people are so pussified.

    And before that it was the suffrage and women's liberation movement. WTF?

    Bill Burr has some interesting perspectives on this subject...
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    jt1135

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    Re: More Guns Bought after Obama was re-elected (?)

    Post  jt1135 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:10 pm

    Everybody wants to compare the US to England. Few differences here. 1. England is the size of Louisianna. Equivelant of a ground floor crapper in a mansion. 2. Population. We have 5 times as many people. 3. Geography. US has a much more diversified landscape. 4. History. Yep, the limey's have been around much longer and they took control of how much of the world at one time? How did they do it? Guns were their main tool.

    Just a few random thoughts as I'm sitting here.

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    Re: More Guns Bought after Obama was re-elected (?)

    Post  jt1135 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:44 pm

    After doing a little research on the computer the first handgun was used in england about 1364. So lets put all the blame on them.
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    FamousDavis
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    Re: More Guns Bought after Obama was re-elected (?)

    Post  FamousDavis on Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:00 pm

    jt1135 wrote:I blame everything on Dr. Spock. That quack with his how to raise kids theories ruined america. We didn't have all these issues amongst our generation. Don't spank the child, put him in a time out. Instead of forcefully dealing with problems we have become a society that pampers and gladhands everybody. No wonder most people are so pussified.

    If anyone is to blame it's Captain Kirk, not Spock. Kirk was out of control and would use his phaser on someone if they simply looked at him the wrong way. When he wasn't killing someone he was chasing alien tale. Besides, Spock had the Vulcan death grip.
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    FreakOfNature

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    Re: More Guns Bought after Obama was re-elected (?)

    Post  FreakOfNature on Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:06 am

    FamousDavis wrote:
    jt1135 wrote:I blame everything on Dr. Spock. That quack with his how to raise kids theories ruined america. We didn't have all these issues amongst our generation. Don't spank the child, put him in a time out. Instead of forcefully dealing with problems we have become a society that pampers and gladhands everybody. No wonder most people are so pussified.

    If anyone is to blame it's Captain Kirk, not Spock. Kirk was out of control and would use his phaser on someone if they simply looked at him the wrong way. When he wasn't killing someone he was chasing alien tale. Besides, Spock had the Vulcan death grip.

    I've heard rumors that Spock could choke a chicken in record time.
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    Playa Hata

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    Re: More Guns Bought after Obama was re-elected (?)

    Post  Playa Hata on Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:03 pm

    Regardless, I think we can all agree that it wasn't Sulu. The gays aren't too fond of guns.


    Last edited by Playa Hata on Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Mongrel

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    Re: More Guns Bought after Obama was re-elected (?)

    Post  Mongrel on Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:23 pm

    Playa Hata wrote:Regardless, I think we can all agree that it wasn't Sulu. The gays aren't too found of guns.

    You'd have to be very watchful of Sulu. He would be most interested in the Klingons on Uranus.
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    Big Dave

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    Re: More Guns Bought after Obama was re-elected (?)

    Post  Big Dave on Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:35 pm

    Mostly German wrote:
    Playa Hata wrote:Regardless, I think we can all agree that it wasn't Sulu. The gays aren't too found of guns.

    You'd have to be very watchful of Sulu. He would be most interested in the Klingons on Uranus.

    no guns for Sulu but he was quite the swordsman on at least one episode.
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    Re: More Guns Bought after Obama was re-elected (?)

    Post  FamousDavis on Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:03 pm

    Big Dave wrote:
    Mostly German wrote:
    Playa Hata wrote:Regardless, I think we can all agree that it wasn't Sulu. The gays aren't too found of guns.

    You'd have to be very watchful of Sulu. He would be most interested in the Klingons on Uranus.

    no guns for Sulu but he was quite the swordsman on at least one episode.

    Are you talking about the locker room sword fight with Dr. McCoy? I thought that was only available on the anniversary DVD collection.
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    Big Dave

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    Re: More Guns Bought after Obama was re-elected (?)

    Post  Big Dave on Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:16 pm

    FamousDavis wrote:
    Big Dave wrote:
    Mostly German wrote:
    Playa Hata wrote:Regardless, I think we can all agree that it wasn't Sulu. The gays aren't too found of guns.

    You'd have to be very watchful of Sulu. He would be most interested in the Klingons on Uranus.

    no guns for Sulu but he was quite the swordsman on at least one episode.

    Are you talking about the locker room sword fight with Dr. McCoy? I thought that was only available on the anniversary DVD collection.
    Sulu took his shirt off, sashayed around waving a sword, and sweated a lot, in at least one episode. It was a gay/not gay test, and I passed. He did not turn me. But his skill with the sword was unquestioned.
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    FamousDavis
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    Re: More Guns Bought after Obama was re-elected (?)

    Post  FamousDavis on Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:24 pm

    All of this talk about Sulu and his swordfight made me decide to get out my favorite tee shirt.

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    Mongrel

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    Re: More Guns Bought after Obama was re-elected (?)

    Post  Mongrel on Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:01 pm

    Big Dave wrote:
    FamousDavis wrote:
    Big Dave wrote:
    Mostly German wrote:
    Playa Hata wrote:Regardless, I think we can all agree that it wasn't Sulu. The gays aren't too found of guns.

    You'd have to be very watchful of Sulu. He would be most interested in the Klingons on Uranus.

    no guns for Sulu but he was quite the swordsman on at least one episode.

    Are you talking about the locker room sword fight with Dr. McCoy? I thought that was only available on the anniversary DVD collection.
    Sulu took his shirt off, sashayed around waving a sword, and sweated a lot, in at least one episode. It was a gay/not gay test, and I passed. He did not turn me. But his skill with the sword was unquestioned.

    To paraphrase someone long ago, "Never bring a blade to a gun fight."
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    jt1135

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    Re: More Guns Bought after Obama was re-elected (?)

    Post  jt1135 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:34 pm

    Here's what you get around here for breaking and entering.

    http://abcnewsradioonline.com/national-news/minnesota-man-who-shot-burglars-fired-more-shots-than-i-need.html
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    Mongrel

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    Re: More Guns Bought after Obama was re-elected (?)

    Post  Mongrel on Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:31 pm

    jt1135 wrote:Here's what you get around here for breaking and entering.

    http://abcnewsradioonline.com/national-news/minnesota-man-who-shot-burglars-fired-more-shots-than-i-need.html

    Why on Earth is the homeowner in the hoosgow? He should be about to receive a tax-free grant from the state that would constitute a reasonable percentage of the cost to prosecute, incarcerate, and monitor post-incarceration-release of the two burglars. Since they were both very young, it is likely that those costs would be substantial during their normal life-of-crime expectancies. So maybe 10% of, say $400,000? Forty large would buy the homeowner a more reliable rifle and ammo to replace what he spent wrapping up the apprehension, criminal investigation, prosecution and sentencing of the criminals. And some left over for the inconvenience. I'll have to give him some extra style points for the kill shot with the handgun.
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    Re: More Guns Bought after Obama was re-elected (?)

    Post  FamousDavis on Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:37 pm

    jt1135 wrote:Here's what you get around here for breaking and entering.

    http://abcnewsradioonline.com/national-news/minnesota-man-who-shot-burglars-fired-more-shots-than-i-need.html

    The guy who shot the intruders should go to prison for life. Have you read the entire story? The guy said that he was in his basement when the teenage intruders came into his house. He first shot the boy and watched him tumble down the stairs. He then shot the girl who also tumbled down the stairs but was not dead. She laughed at him so he dragged her over to where the boy was, put a handgun under her chin and blew her brains out.

    I completely understand the right to defend your property using a gun. However, if you choose to shoot a teenage girl, watch her tumble down stairs and then shoot her again after she is incapacitated, then you are a psycho and society is better off without you.

    We have all been young adults and have done stupid things. I've never broke into someone's house. I imagine there are stupid young adults who have broken into someone's home simply to steal liquor or something similar. I don't believe the punishment for doing that should be the owner taking the intruder's life when the owner doesn't feel in immediate danger.

    You can shoot over people's heads or fire a warning shot when you see them coming down the stairs. If they are big and look like they are going to do your harm, then by all means, fill them with lead.

    This is how America and its guns is so different than other countries. I remember watching a show the other night where they were talking to Canadians and how all of them don't lock their doors. One lady described how some teens broke into her place and stole some liquor. She said she couldn't imagine shooting someone for something like that. Yet, here in American, it's like we jump at the chance to blow away a burglar, even if they are a bunch of teenagers doing bad things.

    There is a difference between defending your home and waiting for the chance to kill an intruder, regardless of how threatening they are.

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    Re: More Guns Bought after Obama was re-elected (?)

    Post  Mongrel on Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:53 pm

    FamousDavis wrote:
    jt1135 wrote:Here's what you get around here for breaking and entering.

    http://abcnewsradioonline.com/national-news/minnesota-man-who-shot-burglars-fired-more-shots-than-i-need.html

    The guy who shot the intruders should go to prison for life. Have you read the entire story? The guy said that he was in his basement when the teenage intruders came into his house. He first shot the boy and watched him tumble down the stairs. He then shot the girl who also tumbled down the stairs but was not dead. She laughed at him so he dragged her over to where the boy was, put a handgun under her chin and blew her brains out.

    I completely understand the right to defend your property using a gun. However, if you choose to shoot a teenage girl, watch her tumble down stairs and then shoot her again after she is incapacitated, then you are a psycho and society is better off without you.

    We have all been young adults and have done stupid things. I've never broke into someone's house. I imagine there are stupid young adults who have broken into someone's home simply to steal liquor or something similar. I don't believe the punishment for doing that should be the owner taking the intruder's life when the owner doesn't feel in immediate danger.

    You can shoot over people's heads or fire a warning shot when you see them coming down the stairs. If they are big and look like they are going to do your harm, then by all means, fill them with lead.

    This is how America and its guns is so different than other countries. I remember watching a show the other night where they were talking to Canadians and how all of them don't lock their doors. One lady described how some teens broke into her place and stole some liquor. She said she couldn't imagine shooting someone for something like that. Yet, here in American, it's like we jump at the chance to blow away a burglar, even if they are a bunch of teenagers doing bad things.

    There is a difference between defending your home and waiting for the chance to kill an intruder, regardless of how threatening they are.


    You make your point quite well. Now this homeowner doesn't sound like the brightest LED in the array based on his post-shooting actions. But he appears to have been burglarized prior to this incident so he was probably bright enough to realize that it might happen again. Maybe he should have had a large dog with a deep growl and that might have scared off the intruders. Maybe the deceased should have knocked on his door or rung the bell. He did follow protocol, however, by dragging the first body out of site while waiting for the next intruder. Sounds to me like those teens may have been under the influence of some sort of narcotics. And after the cops came, he called neighors asking if any of them knew a lawyer? You've got to be shitting me.
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    Playa Hata

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    Re: More Guns Bought after Obama was re-elected (?)

    Post  Playa Hata on Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:15 pm

    Mostly German wrote:You make your point quite well. Now this homeowner doesn't sound like the brightest LED in the array based on his post-shooting actions. But he appears to have been burglarized prior to this incident so he was probably bright enough to realize that it might happen again. Maybe he should have had a large dog with a deep growl and that might have scared off the intruders. Maybe the deceased should have knocked on his door or rung the bell. He did follow protocol, however, by dragging the first body out of site while waiting for the next intruder. Sounds to me like those teens may have been under the influence of some sort of narcotics. And after the cops came, he called neighors asking if any of them knew a lawyer? You've got to be shitting me.

    Yet this guy is what Wayne LaPierre would call, "a good guy with a gun."
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    Re: More Guns Bought after Obama was re-elected (?)

    Post  FamousDavis on Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:17 pm

    Mostly German wrote:
    FamousDavis wrote:
    jt1135 wrote:Here's what you get around here for breaking and entering.

    http://abcnewsradioonline.com/national-news/minnesota-man-who-shot-burglars-fired-more-shots-than-i-need.html

    The guy who shot the intruders should go to prison for life. Have you read the entire story? The guy said that he was in his basement when the teenage intruders came into his house. He first shot the boy and watched him tumble down the stairs. He then shot the girl who also tumbled down the stairs but was not dead. She laughed at him so he dragged her over to where the boy was, put a handgun under her chin and blew her brains out.

    I completely understand the right to defend your property using a gun. However, if you choose to shoot a teenage girl, watch her tumble down stairs and then shoot her again after she is incapacitated, then you are a psycho and society is better off without you.

    We have all been young adults and have done stupid things. I've never broke into someone's house. I imagine there are stupid young adults who have broken into someone's home simply to steal liquor or something similar. I don't believe the punishment for doing that should be the owner taking the intruder's life when the owner doesn't feel in immediate danger.

    You can shoot over people's heads or fire a warning shot when you see them coming down the stairs. If they are big and look like they are going to do your harm, then by all means, fill them with lead.

    This is how America and its guns is so different than other countries. I remember watching a show the other night where they were talking to Canadians and how all of them don't lock their doors. One lady described how some teens broke into her place and stole some liquor. She said she couldn't imagine shooting someone for something like that. Yet, here in American, it's like we jump at the chance to blow away a burglar, even if they are a bunch of teenagers doing bad things.

    There is a difference between defending your home and waiting for the chance to kill an intruder, regardless of how threatening they are.


    You make your point quite well. Now this homeowner doesn't sound like the brightest LED in the array based on his post-shooting actions. But he appears to have been burglarized prior to this incident so he was probably bright enough to realize that it might happen again. Maybe he should have had a large dog with a deep growl and that might have scared off the intruders. Maybe the deceased should have knocked on his door or rung the bell. He did follow protocol, however, by dragging the first body out of site while waiting for the next intruder. Sounds to me like those teens may have been under the influence of some sort of narcotics. And after the cops came, he called neighors asking if any of them knew a lawyer? You've got to be shitting me.

    I'll preface this by saying I'm not at all against gun ownership nor am I against the use of deadly force to defend yourself while in your home. In my opinion, there is a distinction between using deadly force out of fear for your own life vs. using deadly force simply as a right because someone has entered your home illegally.

    Clearly this guy knew what he did was illegal and that he faced prison. Otherwise he would have reported it immediately to the cops.

    This is the way it looks to me. He had a prior burglary (like many of us have had). He chose to buy some guns and have them readily available for the next time he was robbed. Sounds to me like he was looking forward to it. So he knows he's got some intruders who are probably aiming to steal from him again. So, does he yell out "I've got a gun and I'm going to shoot you". No, he doesn't. Does he call 911? Nope. Instead, he lies in wait and then shoots them as soon as he sees them coming down the stairs.

    The real psycho in him comes out when he decides to finish off the teenage girl who's already been shot and is incapacitated. I'm fairly certain that's murder.

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    Mongrel

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    Re: More Guns Bought after Obama was re-elected (?)

    Post  Mongrel on Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:25 pm

    FamousDavis wrote:
    Mostly German wrote:
    FamousDavis wrote:
    jt1135 wrote:Here's what you get around here for breaking and entering.

    http://abcnewsradioonline.com/national-news/minnesota-man-who-shot-burglars-fired-more-shots-than-i-need.html

    The guy who shot the intruders should go to prison for life. Have you read the entire story? The guy said that he was in his basement when the teenage intruders came into his house. He first shot the boy and watched him tumble down the stairs. He then shot the girl who also tumbled down the stairs but was not dead. She laughed at him so he dragged her over to where the boy was, put a handgun under her chin and blew her brains out.

    I completely understand the right to defend your property using a gun. However, if you choose to shoot a teenage girl, watch her tumble down stairs and then shoot her again after she is incapacitated, then you are a psycho and society is better off without you.

    We have all been young adults and have done stupid things. I've never broke into someone's house. I imagine there are stupid young adults who have broken into someone's home simply to steal liquor or something similar. I don't believe the punishment for doing that should be the owner taking the intruder's life when the owner doesn't feel in immediate danger.

    You can shoot over people's heads or fire a warning shot when you see them coming down the stairs. If they are big and look like they are going to do your harm, then by all means, fill them with lead.

    This is how America and its guns is so different than other countries. I remember watching a show the other night where they were talking to Canadians and how all of them don't lock their doors. One lady described how some teens broke into her place and stole some liquor. She said she couldn't imagine shooting someone for something like that. Yet, here in American, it's like we jump at the chance to blow away a burglar, even if they are a bunch of teenagers doing bad things.

    There is a difference between defending your home and waiting for the chance to kill an intruder, regardless of how threatening they are.


    You make your point quite well. Now this homeowner doesn't sound like the brightest LED in the array based on his post-shooting actions. But he appears to have been burglarized prior to this incident so he was probably bright enough to realize that it might happen again. Maybe he should have had a large dog with a deep growl and that might have scared off the intruders. Maybe the deceased should have knocked on his door or rung the bell. He did follow protocol, however, by dragging the first body out of site while waiting for the next intruder. Sounds to me like those teens may have been under the influence of some sort of narcotics. And after the cops came, he called neighors asking if any of them knew a lawyer? You've got to be shitting me.

    I'll preface this by saying I'm not at all against gun ownership nor am I against the use of deadly force to defend yourself while in your home. In my opinion, there is a distinction between using deadly force out of fear for your own life vs. using deadly force simply as a right because someone has entered your home illegally.

    Clearly this guy knew what he did was illegal and that he faced prison. Otherwise he would have reported it immediately to the cops.

    This is the way it looks to me. He had a prior burglary (like many of us have had). He chose to buy some guns and have them readily available for the next time he was robbed. Sounds to me like he was looking forward to it. So he knows he's got some intruders who are probably aiming to steal from him again. So, does he yell out "I've got a gun and I'm going to shoot you". No, he doesn't. Does he call 911? Nope. Instead, he lies in wait and then shoots them as soon as he sees them coming down the stairs.

    The real psycho in him comes out when he decides to finish off the teenage girl who's already been shot and is incapacitated. I'm fairly certain that's murder.


    This is a tough one and it is difficult to pass the ultimate judgement until the Forensics Team has reconstructed the event with certainty. Any sane individual would have been justified in protecting himself since on the face of it, he did not know if the intruders were armed. But if it went down according to the published report, he should have let the girl live and immediately called the po'leece. It would make a great "Law & Order" episode with Sam Waterford ending up proving that the homeowner had invited them to come in and then executed them. Da Dunk!
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    jt1135

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    Re: More Guns Bought after Obama was re-elected (?)

    Post  jt1135 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:35 pm

    Yep, the guy stepped way over the line no doubt about it. These two youngsters broke into a bunch of places up there. What makes me wonder is why the hell she went in there? Must not of heard the shots I guess.
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    jt1135

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    Re: More Guns Bought after Obama was re-elected (?)

    Post  jt1135 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:43 pm

    Here's the minnesota statute on bumping somebody off in your house.

    https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.065
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    Mongrel

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    Re: More Guns Bought after Obama was re-elected (?)

    Post  Mongrel on Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:45 pm

    jt1135 wrote:Yep, the guy stepped way over the line no doubt about it. These two youngsters broke into a bunch of places up there. What makes me wonder is why the hell she went in there? Must not of heard the shots I guess.

    Meth?
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    jt1135

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    Re: More Guns Bought after Obama was re-elected (?)

    Post  jt1135 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:55 pm

    Mostly German wrote:
    jt1135 wrote:Yep, the guy stepped way over the line no doubt about it. These two youngsters broke into a bunch of places up there. What makes me wonder is why the hell she went in there? Must not of heard the shots I guess.

    Meth?

    You can almost call it culling the herd.
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    Big Dave

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    Re: More Guns Bought after Obama was re-elected (?)

    Post  Big Dave on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:36 pm

    jt1135 wrote:Here's the minnesota statute on bumping somebody off in your house.

    https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.065

    so the law doesn't say "if he's in your house", it says "reasonable concern for safety" etc. In other words, your actions are subject to the interpretation of a jury. Same thing pretty much everywhere. There is no circumstance I know of in the USA in which it is legal to just open fire. You have to be able to explain yourself. My friends and I talk this stuff through all the time. If someone is coming at you and firing is the last resort, you fire more than once just to be sure you hit them, but then when the man falls or stops coming toward you, when you stop firing, you have to begin from scratch as far as threat assessment. No jury ever allows someone to stop shooting, evaluate someone laying there wounded, and then start shooting again. The second set of shots is NOT self defense and is never considered that in trials, as far as I know. You cannot backshoot someone who stole your purse and ran. You cannot shoot someone laying on the ground unless he is grabbing at a gun or aiming it at you. It is imperative, to pass the jury sniff test, that you make them believe you had no other choice, or that you believed you had no other choice.

    Just because he is in your house is NOT a license to kill. People scare off burglars from their homes without shooting them on a regular basis. Most burglars are willing to run if they realize they've been found out. And most gun owners do NOT want to kill anyone, under any circumstance.

    It's called self defense. If what you do is NOT defending yourself, you usually have a LOT of explaining to do. there was a guy here in Houston last year, got pissed at his neighbors for loud partying, went there several times and was run off, so he strapped on his .45 openly, put a camcorder on his shoulder, and walked into their party saying loudly to to the camcorder "see, I'm being threatened, I am in fear for my life", etc. Finally the neighbor came at him, and he shot the guy. He put the tape into evidence but the jury, obviously, found him guilty. He provoked the assault, partly by strapping on the gun in open carry, partly by trashtalking. the jury could plainly see he WANTED the neighbor to come at him so he could shoot the guy. Even if he WAS in fear for his life, that doesn't help if he was the one who STARTED it.

    That guy is a stone killer, not a "home defender", and he shouldn't be lumped in with them. Maybe he killed her because he didn't want her surviving and testifying/suing him. Regardless of his reasons, he's a MURDERER. Self defense was a non starter. This is not because he had a gun, not because guns were legal, not because self defense with guns was legal. it is because the man is a very bad man, with murderous impulses, who indulged himself. If the stats are to be believed, elsewhere that day in America, four or five innocent people successfully defended their lives or well being with guns, mostly without firing. That guy was an outlier. Most law abiding gun owners don't shoot anyone, ever, and if they do, it's legitimate. and most gunshot wounds are caused by illegal guns, possessed illegally, in areas where gun ownership is strictly regulated or illegal. That's just statistical fact. Anecdotes can inflame, but without the big picture, they mislead. Banning guns would remove the ability to self-defend from the law abiding people, but a paper ban would do nothing to stop the use of illegal guns, which is by far the biggest cause of gunshot wounds here. By a thousand to one.

    As I have always said, prove to me you can make my life and my family safe, get the guns away from the bad guys, and I'll hand mine over. But not 'til then.

    /end troll

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