The Caddy Shack

...not your typical golf forum


    Food, Inc.

    Share
    avatar
    Poe4soul

    Posts : 417
    Join date : 2012-12-08
    Location : Portland, OR

    Re: Food, Inc.

    Post  Poe4soul on Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:50 pm

    Mongrel wrote:The animals that have been corn-fed are fine. But stay away from those who have been corn-holed.


    I'm sure you have first, should we just say "hand" experience with this...
    avatar
    FamousDavis
    Admin

    Posts : 1091
    Join date : 2012-12-04

    Re: Food, Inc.

    Post  FamousDavis on Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:58 pm

    Poe4soul wrote:
    FamousDavis wrote:
    Poe4soul wrote:Corn and dairy is very subsidized by our government.  The reason you can buy a $2 hamburger at McD's is our taxes are paying a portion of each.  I agree with you on corn syrup and sugar being bad.  Again subsidies.  Take those away and let's see where the chips fall.  The World Health Organization is recommending about 6 teaspoons of sugar/sweetener a day.  that is equal to about 6 oz. of soda a day.  You eat mostly pre-processed foods and you won't meet that recommendation. Plus we get way too little dietary fiber.  A result of eating way too much meat.

    One thing you are not considering with your animal comment.  Those animals are all being feed antibiotics to keep them healthy.  Cows are eating corn that they aren't designed to digest.  Put that together and you are basically eating meat that is not from a healthy animal.  Their omega 6 to omega 3 ratios are way off.  Which is an clear indication of inflammation.  Eat wild or grass fed animals and their ratios are about even.  That is one reason why doctors are so obsessed with consuming high omega 3 foods/oils.  We need to get a balance in our systems because we are eating animals that are way out of balance. Not to mention you are consuming a ton of growth hormones if you are not eating organic chicken. If you have the money to spare, it's worth to spend a few extra bucks to get as natural of food as you can afford.  Lamb is good; they only eat grass.  The same goes for buffalo.

    Food Matters is another good documentary.  Not as much about big business and more about health.

    I disagree with your theory that the animals are unhealthy and therefore that makes the humans who eat them unhealthy.  I think the chickens and cows are fatter than they would normally be and have more meat on them because of the corn consumption.  That in itself might be unhealthy for their hearts and internal organs but I don't necessarily believe that equates to their meat being unhealthy for us.  

    In other words, I don't believe there is anything in the corn fed cows or chickens that is harmful to humans other than the fact that they are probably more fatty.  

    I also don't believe that fertilized crops are bad for you.  You wash them off, eat them and go on your way.  

    I'm not going to spend money on food labeled "organic".  I think that's a scam and I seriously doubt it's any different.  

    If you want to live a long time you need to moderate what you eat, exercise and not worry.   Snack foods like Soda, Chips, Cookies and Candy have WAY more to do with health problems than corn fed cows.  

    The same people who eat organic foods are probably standing in line at the hemp joint in Colorado right now.  What a paradox.   It will be interesting to see what unemployment is like in Colorado in 5 years.  

    Your idea of washing away pesticides and herbicides is just ignorant.  You can in some, but not all. Just google "dirty dozen" and educated yourself on which foods are the worst offenders.

    Question, if a cow on corn and soy feed is require antibiotics mixed into it's feed to keep it from being sick, do you think there's a chance they might have other health issues? Why would you want to ingest meat that is not healthy. And, why would you want to ingest residual antibiotics that kill off you gut biotics that make you healthy and vital?  Is your health worth that chance?  Corn fed cows have poor omega 6 vs omega 3 ratios. You need to educate yourself on omega 6 vs. omega 3.  Your doctor should have helped you on this one.  It's one of the primary discussions in relation to high cholesterol and relates directly to inflammation. Link... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12442909

    If you ignorantly stick to your beliefs; I hope they are strong enough to keep you healthy.

    How is my statement about washing away pesticides ignorant? The pesticides touch the outer layer of the vegetable, correct? Do you have proof that the pesticides infiltrate the internal sections of fruit or vegetables?

    Again, you didn't answer my assertion that just because a cow is fed corn and antibiotics doesn't necessarily mean that the meat that comes out of them is "sick" or anyway different than organic raised cow meat. Maybe it's a bit fattier but that's not what we are talking about. You claim that the corn-fed cows come with meat that is "sick" or filled with "bad things". Prove it and don't give me any of that alpha and omega cow sh!t. No pun intended.
    avatar
    Poe4soul

    Posts : 417
    Join date : 2012-12-08
    Location : Portland, OR

    Re: Food, Inc.

    Post  Poe4soul on Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:43 pm

    FamousDavis wrote:
    Poe4soul wrote:
    FamousDavis wrote:
    Poe4soul wrote:Corn and dairy is very subsidized by our government.  The reason you can buy a $2 hamburger at McD's is our taxes are paying a portion of each.  I agree with you on corn syrup and sugar being bad.  Again subsidies.  Take those away and let's see where the chips fall.  The World Health Organization is recommending about 6 teaspoons of sugar/sweetener a day.  that is equal to about 6 oz. of soda a day.  You eat mostly pre-processed foods and you won't meet that recommendation. Plus we get way too little dietary fiber.  A result of eating way too much meat.

    One thing you are not considering with your animal comment.  Those animals are all being feed antibiotics to keep them healthy.  Cows are eating corn that they aren't designed to digest.  Put that together and you are basically eating meat that is not from a healthy animal.  Their omega 6 to omega 3 ratios are way off.  Which is an clear indication of inflammation.  Eat wild or grass fed animals and their ratios are about even.  That is one reason why doctors are so obsessed with consuming high omega 3 foods/oils.  We need to get a balance in our systems because we are eating animals that are way out of balance. Not to mention you are consuming a ton of growth hormones if you are not eating organic chicken. If you have the money to spare, it's worth to spend a few extra bucks to get as natural of food as you can afford.  Lamb is good; they only eat grass.  The same goes for buffalo.

    Food Matters is another good documentary.  Not as much about big business and more about health.

    I disagree with your theory that the animals are unhealthy and therefore that makes the humans who eat them unhealthy.  I think the chickens and cows are fatter than they would normally be and have more meat on them because of the corn consumption.  That in itself might be unhealthy for their hearts and internal organs but I don't necessarily believe that equates to their meat being unhealthy for us.  

    In other words, I don't believe there is anything in the corn fed cows or chickens that is harmful to humans other than the fact that they are probably more fatty.  

    I also don't believe that fertilized crops are bad for you.  You wash them off, eat them and go on your way.  

    I'm not going to spend money on food labeled "organic".  I think that's a scam and I seriously doubt it's any different.  

    If you want to live a long time you need to moderate what you eat, exercise and not worry.   Snack foods like Soda, Chips, Cookies and Candy have WAY more to do with health problems than corn fed cows.  

    The same people who eat organic foods are probably standing in line at the hemp joint in Colorado right now.  What a paradox.   It will be interesting to see what unemployment is like in Colorado in 5 years.  

    Your idea of washing away pesticides and herbicides is just ignorant.  You can in some, but not all. Just google "dirty dozen" and educated yourself on which foods are the worst offenders.

    Question, if a cow on corn and soy feed is require antibiotics mixed into it's feed to keep it from being sick, do you think there's a chance they might have other health issues? Why would you want to ingest meat that is not healthy. And, why would you want to ingest residual antibiotics that kill off you gut biotics that make you healthy and vital?  Is your health worth that chance?  Corn fed cows have poor omega 6 vs omega 3 ratios. You need to educate yourself on omega 6 vs. omega 3.  Your doctor should have helped you on this one.  It's one of the primary discussions in relation to high cholesterol and relates directly to inflammation. Link... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12442909

    If you ignorantly stick to your beliefs; I hope they are strong enough to keep you healthy.

    How is my statement about washing away pesticides ignorant?  The pesticides touch the outer layer of the vegetable, correct?  Do you have proof that the pesticides infiltrate the internal sections of fruit or vegetables?  

    Again, you didn't answer my assertion that just because a cow is fed corn and antibiotics doesn't necessarily mean that the meat that comes out of them is "sick" or anyway different than organic raised cow meat.  Maybe it's a bit fattier but that's not what we are talking about.  You claim that the corn-fed cows come with meat that is "sick" or filled with "bad things".   Prove it and don't give me any of that alpha and omega cow sh!t.  No pun intended.

    The omega 6 to 3 ratio is proof. Do your own research. I have and it's pretty clear that they are not healthy, period. I don't eat much red meat and when I do it's usually lamb or bison.

    All of us should be very concerned about the overuse of antibiotics. Especially when it is liberally done without need. The next time you eat meat that's a bit bloody, you might be ingesting antibiotic resistant bacteria due to these practices. For what, fatter, cheaper meat?
    avatar
    Mongrel

    Posts : 1761
    Join date : 2012-12-04
    Location : The Oort Cloud

    Re: Food, Inc.

    Post  Mongrel on Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:44 pm

    Looks like we have a new Larry. A Food Larry. Now the real big event in the entire history of the humans is when the first trog discovered that submitting an animal carcass to high heat for a period of time would not only make it more tasty and easier to chew, but less likely to injure or kill he and his fellow two leggers. So, so long as I can submit the flesh I eat and some of the plants or parts thereof to sufficient heat, the bad crap will likely be neutralized. Been doing it for eight decades and I am still vertical and utilizing O2 and playing from the same tees as the young bombers.
    avatar
    Poe4soul

    Posts : 417
    Join date : 2012-12-08
    Location : Portland, OR

    Re: Food, Inc.

    Post  Poe4soul on Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:27 pm

    Mongrel wrote:Looks like we have a new Larry. A Food Larry. Now the real big event in the entire history of the humans is when the first trog discovered that submitting an animal carcass to high heat for a period of time would not only make it more tasty and easier to chew, but less likely to injure or kill he and his fellow two leggers. So, so long as I can submit the flesh I eat and some of the plants or parts thereof to sufficient heat, the bad crap will likely be neutralized. Been doing it for eight decades and I am still vertical and utilizing O2 and playing from the same tees as the young bombers.

    And we all eat our beef well done, right. There are plenty of people that have rare beef. Which by definition of cold, red center.

    and phuck you for the larry reference. Now, go eat your TV dinner, old man.
    avatar
    jt1135

    Posts : 441
    Join date : 2012-12-05
    Location : Middle of Nowhere

    Re: Food, Inc.

    Post  jt1135 on Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:31 pm

    Poe4soul wrote:
    Mongrel wrote:Looks like we have a new Larry. A Food Larry. Now the real big event in the entire history of the humans is when the first trog discovered that submitting an animal carcass to high heat for a period of time would not only make it more tasty and easier to chew, but less likely to injure or kill he and his fellow two leggers. So, so long as I can submit the flesh I eat and some of the plants or parts thereof to sufficient heat, the bad crap will likely be neutralized. Been doing it for eight decades and I am still vertical and utilizing O2 and playing from the same tees as the young bombers.

    And we all eat our beef well done, right.  There are plenty of people that have rare beef.  Which by definition of cold, red center.

    and phuck you for the larry reference. Now, go eat your TV dinner, old man.

    Can't wait for the veggie saute Tai Chi style Laughing 
    avatar
    Mongrel

    Posts : 1761
    Join date : 2012-12-04
    Location : The Oort Cloud

    Re: Food, Inc.

    Post  Mongrel on Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:10 am

    Despite his annoying nature, at least Larry served his country doing some of the most dangerous duty known to man. The old saying is "Don't f*ck with SEALs or sub sailors."
    avatar
    FamousDavis
    Admin

    Posts : 1091
    Join date : 2012-12-04

    Re: Food, Inc.

    Post  FamousDavis on Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:19 am

    Mongrel brought up this most obvious point of all - we cook our food. Most people cook meat to what I would call medium rare or done. That itself would kill off most of the toxins (if there are any) in the meat. We all know not to eat chicken that is pink in the middle. Plus, that organic sh!t is probably more likely to have that samollian vanilla in it.

    Let's be real. The way to live a long time is to exercise, get a lot of sleep and not worry. Besides, hypertension, high blood pressure, crazy women - something is going to get your ass.
    avatar
    Poe4soul

    Posts : 417
    Join date : 2012-12-08
    Location : Portland, OR

    Re: Food, Inc.

    Post  Poe4soul on Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:36 am

    FamousDavis wrote:Mongrel brought up this most obvious point of all - we cook our food.  Most people cook meat to what I would call medium rare or done.  That itself would kill off most of the toxins (if there are any) in the meat.  We all know not to eat chicken that is pink in the middle.  Plus, that organic sh!t is probably more likely to have that samollian vanilla in it.  

    Let's be real.  The way to live a long time is to exercise, get a lot of sleep and not worry.  Besides, hypertension, high blood pressure, crazy women - something is going to get your ass.

    Still taking those statins?
    avatar
    Kiwigolfer

    Posts : 477
    Join date : 2012-12-05
    Location : A land downunder

    Re: Food, Inc.

    Post  Kiwigolfer on Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:48 pm

    Mongrel wrote:Despite his annoying nature, at least Larry served his country doing some of the most dangerous duty known to man. The old saying is "Don't f*ck with SEALs or sub sailors."

    Larry was an absolute loon, or a master troll or both. I couldn't stand the guy. You can't compare Poe4soul to Larry on any level whatsoever. Poe is always up for a good debate but he brings facts and opinion backed up with solid data. Larry just brought verbatim cut and paste jobs to the table and nothing to back it up besides ad hominen attacks on any who dared to disagree.

    To give Larry (and his sidekick Alan) his due he is an internet legend whose legend spread far wider than GR. I think he has made a name for himself on virtually every golf discussion board on the world wide web.
    avatar
    FamousDavis
    Admin

    Posts : 1091
    Join date : 2012-12-04

    Re: Food, Inc.

    Post  FamousDavis on Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:59 pm

    Poe4soul wrote:
    FamousDavis wrote:Mongrel brought up this most obvious point of all - we cook our food.  Most people cook meat to what I would call medium rare or done.  That itself would kill off most of the toxins (if there are any) in the meat.  We all know not to eat chicken that is pink in the middle.  Plus, that organic sh!t is probably more likely to have that samollian vanilla in it.  

    Let's be real.  The way to live a long time is to exercise, get a lot of sleep and not worry.  Besides, hypertension, high blood pressure, crazy women - something is going to get your ass.

    Still taking those statins?

    That has nothing to do with my diet. High Cholesterol runs in my family. I weigh 154 pounds. My doctor told me that no diet in the world would lower my cholesterol to the appropriate levels. Yes, I listen to my doctor before you. More than one has told me this.

    Besides, stick to the point. You think my cholesterol would be better if I ate organic meat?
    avatar
    Poe4soul

    Posts : 417
    Join date : 2012-12-08
    Location : Portland, OR

    Re: Food, Inc.

    Post  Poe4soul on Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:02 pm

    FamousDavis wrote:
    Poe4soul wrote:
    FamousDavis wrote:Mongrel brought up this most obvious point of all - we cook our food.  Most people cook meat to what I would call medium rare or done.  That itself would kill off most of the toxins (if there are any) in the meat.  We all know not to eat chicken that is pink in the middle.  Plus, that organic sh!t is probably more likely to have that samollian vanilla in it.  

    Let's be real.  The way to live a long time is to exercise, get a lot of sleep and not worry.  Besides, hypertension, high blood pressure, crazy women - something is going to get your ass.

    Still taking those statins?

    That has nothing to do with my diet.   High Cholesterol runs in my family.  I weigh 154 pounds.  My doctor told me that no diet in the world would lower my cholesterol to the appropriate levels.   Yes, I listen to my doctor before you.   More than one has told me this.  

    Besides, stick to the point.  You think my cholesterol would be better if I ate organic meat?

    I'm sure the system is fukked. It's mostly about greed, money and what is easy. You can only control the latter. Not taking responsibility for what goes into your pie hole is your choice.

    I too had high cholesterol and was told by my doc that I needed to go on statins. I went another direction. I personally don't believe our medical system cares much about a person. Sure, people in general, but not persons. "You have this, then take this drug" seems to be the approach. For example, one of my golfing buddies wife has RA. She took it onto herself to figure out her diet. The doctor said she was being naive and diet would have little to no effect. At the time she was using a cane to get around and always in pain. It took her six months eliminating/refining her diet but now she doesn't use a cane and takes about 1/3 of the med's she was taking. The doctor is in complete denial that the diet made any difference. She fired him. I could tell you two or three other personal stories about Doc's not knowing shiat except take this pill. Our medical system if flat broken, even before Obama Care. The same goes for our farm and meat industries.

    What I've learned over the past 3-4 years on my personal health journey is we have basically forgotten how to eat and take care of our bodies. Our food industrialization isn't helping us. Infact, they are poisoning many of us. You have to work hard to not eat pesticides (poison), herbicides (poison), and antibiotics (poison for your gut biotics).

    "In government tests analyzed by the Environmental Working Group, detectable pesticide residues were found on 67 percent of food samples after they had been washed or peeled" By washed they used a high pressure food cleaning system which is way better than you can do with a sink and a scrub brush. Here's the link to the dirty dozen. Also read the clean 15 lists for the best non organic foods. http://www.ewg.org/foodnews/methodology.php

    The FDA recommends you scrub your vegetable and trim off skin and fat from meat. Trimming the fat is because fat is used to store away toxins, ie pesticides. This is fact, look it up. So, yes, the extra marbling in feedlot raised meat will contain more poisons.

    As I stated before, grain and antibiotics are used to fatten beef. This brings meat to the market faster and fatter for less costs. Meat is subsidized in the US above 60%. Meaning the price of meat is over half what the actual cost to produce. This makes meat very affordable. We eat way too much meat in the US and the result is poor health. So, yes, if meat was organic, you would eat less meat and vegetables would be more affordable in comparison. So, it could lower your cholesterol because vegetarian diets do in fact lower your cholesterol.

    But that's not my beef with the meat industry. It's the liberal use of these poisons. I have no problem with feedlots. But I have a problem with a system that produces some sick animals so the solution is to lazily give all of the animals antibiotics. The same goes for the food industry. You want to use GM corn and soy, good. But don't just spray the whole lot with roundup, a poison, because you can. It isn't healthy and it can't just be washed away.

    That said, we can't control all of this but you certainly can make better choices by eating organic foods. If enough of us do this and the message will be sent and change may happen. I think I've made my point. If you don't want to change, don't. But there's enough evidence out there to know that we are not headed in a healthy direction.

    This is all I have to say... Do what what you will.
    avatar
    jt1135

    Posts : 441
    Join date : 2012-12-05
    Location : Middle of Nowhere

    Re: Food, Inc.

    Post  jt1135 on Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:13 pm

    Poe4soul wrote:
    FamousDavis wrote:
    Poe4soul wrote:
    FamousDavis wrote:Mongrel brought up this most obvious point of all - we cook our food.  Most people cook meat to what I would call medium rare or done.  That itself would kill off most of the toxins (if there are any) in the meat.  We all know not to eat chicken that is pink in the middle.  Plus, that organic sh!t is probably more likely to have that samollian vanilla in it.  

    Let's be real.  The way to live a long time is to exercise, get a lot of sleep and not worry.  Besides, hypertension, high blood pressure, crazy women - something is going to get your ass.

    Still taking those statins?

    That has nothing to do with my diet.   High Cholesterol runs in my family.  I weigh 154 pounds.  My doctor told me that no diet in the world would lower my cholesterol to the appropriate levels.   Yes, I listen to my doctor before you.   More than one has told me this.  

    Besides, stick to the point.  You think my cholesterol would be better if I ate organic meat?

    I'm sure the system is fukked.  It's mostly about greed, money and what is easy.  You can only control the latter.  Not taking responsibility for what goes into your pie hole is your choice.  

    I too had high cholesterol and was told by my doc that I needed to go on statins.  I went another direction.  I personally don't believe our medical system cares much about a person.  Sure, people in general, but not persons.  "You have this, then take this drug" seems to be the approach.  For example, one of my golfing buddies wife has RA.  She took it onto herself to figure out her diet.  The doctor said she was being naive and diet would have little to no effect. At the time she was using a cane to get around and always in pain.  It took her six months eliminating/refining her diet but now she doesn't use a cane and takes about 1/3 of the med's she was taking. The doctor is in complete denial that the diet made any difference.  She fired him. I could tell you two or three other personal stories about Doc's not knowing shiat except take this pill.  Our medical system if flat broken, even before Obama Care.  The same goes for our farm and meat industries.

    What I've learned over the past 3-4 years on my personal health journey is we have basically forgotten how to eat and take care of our bodies.  Our food industrialization isn't helping us.  Infact, they are poisoning many of us.  You have to work hard to not eat pesticides (poison), herbicides (poison), and antibiotics (poison for your gut biotics).

    "In government tests analyzed by the Environmental Working Group, detectable pesticide residues were found on 67 percent of food samples after they had been washed or peeled" By washed they used a high pressure food cleaning system which is way better than you can do with a sink and a scrub brush. Here's the link to the dirty dozen. Also read the clean 15 lists for the best non organic foods. http://www.ewg.org/foodnews/methodology.php

    The FDA recommends you scrub your vegetable and trim off skin and fat from meat. Trimming the fat is because fat is used to store away toxins, ie pesticides.  This is fact, look it up.  So, yes, the extra marbling in feedlot raised meat will contain more poisons.  

    As I stated before, grain and antibiotics are used to fatten beef.  This brings meat to the market faster and fatter for less costs.  Meat is subsidized in the US above 60%.  Meaning the price of meat is over half what the actual cost to produce.  This makes meat very affordable.  We eat way too much meat in the US and the result is poor health.  So, yes, if meat was organic, you would eat less meat and vegetables would be more affordable in comparison.  So, it could lower your cholesterol because vegetarian diets do in fact lower your cholesterol.  

    But that's not my beef with the meat industry. It's the liberal use of these poisons.  I have no problem with feedlots.  But I have a problem with a system that produces some sick animals so the solution is to lazily give all of the animals antibiotics.  The same goes for the food industry.  You want to use GM corn and soy, good.  But don't just spray the whole lot with roundup, a poison, because you can.  It isn't healthy and it can't just be washed away.  

    That said, we can't control all of this but you certainly can make better choices by eating organic foods.  If enough of us do this and the message will be sent and change may happen. I think I've made my point.  If you don't want to change, don't.  But there's enough evidence out there to know that we are not headed in a healthy direction.

    This is all I have to say... Do what what you will.



    And what is the EWG? A bunch of liberals who are trying to save us all from ourselves with connections to lobbiests in Washington.

    There are 2 sides to every argument Poe. Not saying mine is right or yours is wrong or vice versa, but a person has to be able to see both sides. No doubt there are better ways to feed everybody, but as I said, this is what we have for the forseeable future to keep most people from starving.
    avatar
    Kiwigolfer

    Posts : 477
    Join date : 2012-12-05
    Location : A land downunder

    Re: Food, Inc.

    Post  Kiwigolfer on Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:48 pm

    Poe4soul wrote:

    I too had high cholesterol and was told by my doc that I needed to go on statins.  I went another direction.  I personally don't believe our medical system cares much about a person.  Sure, people in general, but not persons.  "You have this, then take this drug" seems to be the approach.  For example, one of my golfing buddies wife has RA.  She took it onto herself to figure out her diet.  The doctor said she was being naive and diet would have little to no effect. At the time she was using a cane to get around and always in pain.  It took her six months eliminating/refining her diet but now she doesn't use a cane and takes about 1/3 of the med's she was taking. The doctor is in complete denial that the diet made any difference.  She fired him. I could tell you two or three other personal stories about Doc's not knowing shiat except take this pill.  Our medical system is flat broken.


    Sounds familiar. I was asthmatic and taking medication all my life until at the ripe old age of 33 I went on a low carb diet to drop a few pounds and my asthma completely cleared up. My doctors refused to believe the diet had anything to do with it. One insisted on prescribing my medication anyway (which I never touched) and another suggested I had just 'grown out' of my asthma naturally.  Rolling Eyes 

    I haven't needed any asthma medication in over a decade but I know it would come back immediately if I went back to eating the processed crap I once lived on.

    Western healthcare in general is broken. I can assure you it's not just a US problem.
    avatar
    Poe4soul

    Posts : 417
    Join date : 2012-12-08
    Location : Portland, OR

    Re: Food, Inc.

    Post  Poe4soul on Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:54 pm

    jt1135 wrote:
    Poe4soul wrote:
    FamousDavis wrote:
    Poe4soul wrote:
    FamousDavis wrote:Mongrel brought up this most obvious point of all - we cook our food.  Most people cook meat to what I would call medium rare or done.  That itself would kill off most of the toxins (if there are any) in the meat.  We all know not to eat chicken that is pink in the middle.  Plus, that organic sh!t is probably more likely to have that samollian vanilla in it.  

    Let's be real.  The way to live a long time is to exercise, get a lot of sleep and not worry.  Besides, hypertension, high blood pressure, crazy women - something is going to get your ass.

    Still taking those statins?

    That has nothing to do with my diet.   High Cholesterol runs in my family.  I weigh 154 pounds.  My doctor told me that no diet in the world would lower my cholesterol to the appropriate levels.   Yes, I listen to my doctor before you.   More than one has told me this.  

    Besides, stick to the point.  You think my cholesterol would be better if I ate organic meat?

    I'm sure the system is fukked.  It's mostly about greed, money and what is easy.  You can only control the latter.  Not taking responsibility for what goes into your pie hole is your choice.  

    I too had high cholesterol and was told by my doc that I needed to go on statins.  I went another direction.  I personally don't believe our medical system cares much about a person.  Sure, people in general, but not persons.  "You have this, then take this drug" seems to be the approach.  For example, one of my golfing buddies wife has RA.  She took it onto herself to figure out her diet.  The doctor said she was being naive and diet would have little to no effect. At the time she was using a cane to get around and always in pain.  It took her six months eliminating/refining her diet but now she doesn't use a cane and takes about 1/3 of the med's she was taking. The doctor is in complete denial that the diet made any difference.  She fired him. I could tell you two or three other personal stories about Doc's not knowing shiat except take this pill.  Our medical system if flat broken, even before Obama Care.  The same goes for our farm and meat industries.

    What I've learned over the past 3-4 years on my personal health journey is we have basically forgotten how to eat and take care of our bodies.  Our food industrialization isn't helping us.  Infact, they are poisoning many of us.  You have to work hard to not eat pesticides (poison), herbicides (poison), and antibiotics (poison for your gut biotics).

    "In government tests analyzed by the Environmental Working Group, detectable pesticide residues were found on 67 percent of food samples after they had been washed or peeled" By washed they used a high pressure food cleaning system which is way better than you can do with a sink and a scrub brush. Here's the link to the dirty dozen. Also read the clean 15 lists for the best non organic foods. http://www.ewg.org/foodnews/methodology.php

    The FDA recommends you scrub your vegetable and trim off skin and fat from meat. Trimming the fat is because fat is used to store away toxins, ie pesticides.  This is fact, look it up.  So, yes, the extra marbling in feedlot raised meat will contain more poisons.  

    As I stated before, grain and antibiotics are used to fatten beef.  This brings meat to the market faster and fatter for less costs.  Meat is subsidized in the US above 60%.  Meaning the price of meat is over half what the actual cost to produce.  This makes meat very affordable.  We eat way too much meat in the US and the result is poor health.  So, yes, if meat was organic, you would eat less meat and vegetables would be more affordable in comparison.  So, it could lower your cholesterol because vegetarian diets do in fact lower your cholesterol.  

    But that's not my beef with the meat industry. It's the liberal use of these poisons.  I have no problem with feedlots.  But I have a problem with a system that produces some sick animals so the solution is to lazily give all of the animals antibiotics.  The same goes for the food industry.  You want to use GM corn and soy, good.  But don't just spray the whole lot with roundup, a poison, because you can.  It isn't healthy and it can't just be washed away.  

    That said, we can't control all of this but you certainly can make better choices by eating organic foods.  If enough of us do this and the message will be sent and change may happen. I think I've made my point.  If you don't want to change, don't.  But there's enough evidence out there to know that we are not headed in a healthy direction.

    This is all I have to say... Do what what you will.
     


    And what is the EWG?  A bunch of liberals who are trying to save us all from ourselves with connections to lobbiests in Washington.  

    There are 2 sides to every argument Poe.  Not saying mine is right or yours is wrong or vice versa, but a person has to be able to see both sides.  No doubt there are better ways to feed everybody, but as I said, this is what we have for the forseeable future to keep most people from starving.

    I find it ironic that you call me liberal but are willing to sacrifice your health to save the world of staving people.

    There are many arguments to this green revolution. Many suggest that this will just put off the inevitable. People will continue to over breed no matter how many green revolutions will not divert the inevitable.
    avatar
    jt1135

    Posts : 441
    Join date : 2012-12-05
    Location : Middle of Nowhere

    Re: Food, Inc.

    Post  jt1135 on Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:23 am

    Looking at the numbers Poe, I don't believe we will end up like lemmings, throwing ourselves into the ocean, or end up eating soylent green.

    In the developed world, there are countries right now that are worried because of declining birth rates. As the generation of baby boomers die off we will start to see an increase in death rates. Right now the replacement number is 2.1. Most of the developed countries birth rates are under that.

    Here in the U.S. its been talked about for a few years already. People live longer through better health care (nutrition, innoculations,wealth, lifestyle etc). Since we are living longer and having fewer children, it puts a greater strain on the younger generations to pay for our old, feeble asses. Reason why social security is in a bind.

    Even in developing countries the birth rate is dropping. Because of better nutrition, inoculations and greater individual wealth people don't need as many offspring to ensure that some will live to help or take care of the aging adults. Plus since more women are being educated and are joining the work force, they are deciding to have fewer kids so it doesn't interfere with their life style.

    In my own opinion, the extension of life is way overrated. I don't want to end up being in the mid nineties wearing depends, drooling, having somebody spoon feed me and be in a nursing home. Only way out of that place is taking the last ride in the grey taxi. Reason why I retired early and moved in with my aging parents so they can live at home as long as possible.

    We are not immortal so it comes down to quality or quantity of life. Now that I am almost 60 and the last kid graduates next year I can live, eat and do what ever I want.

    So in closing, I would have to disagree on your assessment that the production of food the way we do it now is viewed very narrowly. Taken the world as a whole, its working.
    avatar
    Poe4soul

    Posts : 417
    Join date : 2012-12-08
    Location : Portland, OR

    Re: Food, Inc.

    Post  Poe4soul on Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:03 am

    jt1135 wrote:Looking at the numbers Poe, I don't believe we will end up like lemmings, throwing ourselves into the ocean, or end up eating soylent green.

    In the developed world, there are countries right now that are worried because of declining birth rates.  As the generation of baby boomers die off we will start to see an increase in death rates.  Right now the replacement number is 2.1.  Most of the developed countries birth rates are under that.  

    Here in the U.S. its been talked about for a few years already.  People live longer through better health care (nutrition, innoculations,wealth,  lifestyle etc).  Since we are living longer and having fewer children, it puts a greater strain on the younger generations to pay for our old, feeble asses. Reason why social security is in a bind.

    Interesting because the current generations are not predicted to live as long as the past generations. Our health is poorer than the prior generation and the younger generation is poorer than ours.  It's not entirely clear that it's one factor but a combination of factors being eating habits, nutrition and inactivity.

    jt1135 wrote:Even in developing countries the birth rate is dropping.  Because of better nutrition, inoculations and greater individual wealth people don't need as many offspring to ensure that some will live to help or take care of the aging adults.  Plus since more women are being educated and are joining the work force, they are deciding to have fewer kids so it doesn't interfere with their life style.

    In my own opinion, the extension of life is way overrated.  I don't want to end up being in the mid nineties wearing depends, drooling, having somebody spoon feed me and be in a nursing home.  Only way out of that place is taking the last ride in the grey taxi.  Reason why I retired early and moved in with my aging parents so they can live at home as long as possible.

    I don't agree with this last assertion with respect to diet and exercise.  Extending life with medical procedures usually causes what you are suggesting earlier than if you ate correctly and exercised.  I'm with you on the later.  I'm in serious consideration of having DNR tattooed on my chest.  There are too many bad outcomes from even basic CPR let alone more invasive procedures.  Give a listen to this Radiolab. It's about what procedures doctors will accept and do not accept.  It changed my understandin of how bullshiat our medical industry is.  If a doctor wouldn't accept these treatments, why should I? http://www.radiolab.org/story/262588-bitter-end/

    jt1135 wrote:We are not immortal so it comes down to quality or quantity of life.  Now that I am almost 60 and the last kid graduates next year I can live, eat and do what ever I want.  

    So in closing, I would have to disagree on your assessment that the production of food the way we do it now is viewed very narrowly.  Taken the world as a whole, its working.  

    And I disagree. I think we could do better, much better.  The US FDA is a farce.  They are owned by industrialized food or the industries of the "green revolution."

    We're are at an impasse.  I'm simply not willing to sacrifice my health to create, or eat, cheap food. I believe we are the sum of the parts. You put garbage into your body and you are destined to be drooling and sick at a much younger age than if you ate good food and exercised.  

    This article "Contaminated chicken: Illnesses surge, Denmark attacks salmonella in program that proves a success" was on the front page of our local paper this weekend. It is an example of how poorly we approach our food production and distribution in the US. Food production for our larger companies in the US is 100% about money. They could care less about feeding the poor unless it makes them money.
    http://www.oregonlive.com/health/index.ssf/2014/03/contaminated_chicken_illnesses.html
    avatar
    jmtbkr

    Posts : 359
    Join date : 2012-12-05
    Location : LawnGuylund/Palm Beach Gardens

    Re: Food, Inc.

    Post  jmtbkr on Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:03 am

    can you say, "MONSANTO" ?
    Attachments
    bigagrifood_363_244.jpg
    You don't have permission to download attachments.
    (115 Kb) Downloaded 1 times
    avatar
    FamousDavis
    Admin

    Posts : 1091
    Join date : 2012-12-04

    Re: Food, Inc.

    Post  FamousDavis on Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:03 am

    I went to Claim Jumper the other night.  Talk about ridiculously-sized portions.  My tuna sandwich meal turned into dinner that night and lunch the two following days.  It was that much food.  Even the kids meals were way too big.  

    That's why I really try to limit going out to dinner.  For one it's way too expensive.  The most important reason is that it's too easy to overeat at these places.

    Plus I'm fairly certain the tuna isn't grass fed or organic.
    avatar
    Mongrel

    Posts : 1761
    Join date : 2012-12-04
    Location : The Oort Cloud

    Re: Food, Inc.

    Post  Mongrel on Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:58 am

    That tuna probably has some extras the fish acquired along the way to your table that provide benefits to humans when ingested. For example, the PCBs it absorbed in the sea came originally from electrical transformers. PCBs were put into the transformers for their electrical insulation qualities. So if you have enough PCBs, your body should be well insulated from electricity. Not saying you'd want to try stepping onto the third rail of that commuter train or anything like that, though. That tuna also might have swum through some of that precious Fukushima water forged in the belly of the reactors. The excited electrons and neutrons in those molecules of water will help ensure that bacteria and other tiny organisms found in the fish flesh should be good and dead before you swallow it.

    We don't have that restaurant chain back here in the East yet. I went onto its website and perused the menu. Looks like you could substitute one chain sit-down casual store with another on the menu and the building facade and 93.7% of the causal sitdown dining public wouldn't know the diff.

    The burgers look good but they are a bit pricy. If all the ingrediants are crap as some say, then why pay ten bucks for a burger and fries when you could go to Burger King where I could get two double cheeseburgers (plain) and a large fry for about 60% of the Chain Grabbers tab. And I don't tip at the BK. Now if you drink fire water with your meals, at the BK you just go through the drive-through and you gots your juice in a brown paper bag.
    avatar
    Pky6471

    Posts : 836
    Join date : 2012-12-05
    Location : Between DC and NY

    Re: Food, Inc.

    Post  Pky6471 on Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:07 pm

    FamousDavis wrote:I went to Claim Jumper the other night.  Talk about ridiculously-sized portions.  My tuna sandwich meal turned into dinner that night and lunch the two following days.  It was that much food.  Even the kids meals were way too big.  

    That's why I really try to limit going out to dinner.  For one it's way too expensive.  The most important reason is that it's too easy to overeat at these places.

    Plus I'm fairly certain the tuna isn't grass fed or organic.  

    We , in the USA , don't gain wt because of what we eat , it's the portion that kill most of us, if not, it's one of the root causes our diseases. I cut back on meat and eat more veggies when possible, hopefully I could play golf for the next 20 yrs
    avatar
    Pky6471

    Posts : 836
    Join date : 2012-12-05
    Location : Between DC and NY

    Re: Food, Inc.

    Post  Pky6471 on Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:14 pm

    Mongrel wrote:That tuna probably has some extras the fish acquired along the way to your table that provide benefits to humans when ingested. For example, the PCBs it absorbed in the sea came originally from electrical transformers. PCBs were put into the transformers for their electrical insulation qualities. So if you have enough PCBs, your body should be well insulated from electricity. Not saying you'd want to try stepping onto the third rail of that commuter train or anything like that, though. That tuna also might have swum through some of that precious Fukushima water forged in the belly of the reactors. The excited electrons and neutrons in those molecules of water will help ensure that bacteria and other tiny organisms found in the fish flesh should be good and dead before you swallow it.

    We don't have that restaurant chain back here in the East yet. I went onto its website and perused the menu. Looks like you could substitute one chain sit-down casual store with another on the menu and the building facade and 93.7% of the causal sitdown dining public wouldn't know the diff.

    The burgers look good but they are a bit pricy. If all the ingrediants are crap as some say, then why pay ten bucks for a burger and fries when you could go to Burger King where I could get two double cheeseburgers (plain) and a large fry for about 60% of the Chain Grabbers tab. And I don't tip at the BK. Now if you drink fire water with your meals, at the BK you just go through the drive-through and you gots your juice in a brown paper bag.  
    \

    Couple wks ago while in Phoenix, we visited Sedona which is quite a nice town , we stopped by Wendy for a quick lunch and IMO it was quite good, i.e. IMO leaner and taste better than other food chains (M and BK)
    avatar
    Mongrel

    Posts : 1761
    Join date : 2012-12-04
    Location : The Oort Cloud

    Re: Food, Inc.

    Post  Mongrel on Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:36 pm

    I used to like Wendy's back in the old days because it was the only fast food chain store that used actual animal fat to cook their burgers and french fries in. Then there was Roy Rogers where, if you were almost broke a lot like I was, you could order the cheapest hamburger and load up at the Fixin's Bar. I used to glom a load of lettuce, onions and tomato to go with that dollar burger.
    avatar
    Kiwigolfer

    Posts : 477
    Join date : 2012-12-05
    Location : A land downunder

    Re: Food, Inc.

    Post  Kiwigolfer on Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:37 pm

    I bought blueberries the other day at the supermarket because they're supposed to be some kind of super food.  They had organic and non organic so I decided to have a dollar each way and bought a pack of each. Ate the organic ones first and they were good. Just eating a few of the non organic ones now and they're good too but I gotta give the edge to the organic berries as they seemed plumper and juicier.

    I also bought that other wonder food kale. Chops up Ok in stir fries and salads but the best dish so far is kale chips. Who would have thought you could convert a green cabbage like vegetable into crispy chips? Bloody nice!

    At this rate, eating all these wonder foods, I soon expect my biceps to be bulging like Popeye the Sailor Man.  Very Happy
    avatar
    Mongrel

    Posts : 1761
    Join date : 2012-12-04
    Location : The Oort Cloud

    Re: Food, Inc.

    Post  Mongrel on Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:34 am

    For Popeye forearms, you need to gorge on spinach. Kale won't do it. Over here in the States, the organic version of fruits like the blueberry are way more than a dollar higher than the non-organic type. Sometimes you find the organic fruits and other stuff on sale. Of course they are on sale because they are so expensive that they sit on the shelves and are close to rotten by the time the store marks them down.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Food, Inc.

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:35 am