The Caddy Shack

...not your typical golf forum


    New Car Thread

    Share
    avatar
    trombettista_vecchio

    Posts : 268
    Join date : 2012-12-15

    New Car Thread

    Post  trombettista_vecchio on Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:39 am

    I've got to share this.

    Yesterday, I was invited to the home of my chiropractor and his partner. They live in a large barn converted to a carriage house with a beautiful apartment on top in the lofts. The guys chose this home as a place to store the coolest collection of restomodded vintage cars that I've ever seen short of the Imperial Palace Collection in Las Vegas.

    I will list them carefully to get it exactly right.

    1949 Ford Woody (wagon, Ford Windsor Z363 crate engine)
    1957 Thunderbird (roadster, Ford Windsor Z363 crate engine)
    1963 Corvette StingRay (coupe, Edelbrock 555 BBC crate engine)
    1964 Lincoln Continental (convertible, Genesis 468 FE crate engine)
    1969 Mustang (fastback coupe, Ford Windsor X427 crate engine)
    1986 Lincoln Town Car (sedan, Ford Windsor X427 crate engine)

    To me, the most incredible part of the collection is the fact that it is comprised of many of the same cars that I might choose for myself. Maybe I just think that after seeing them, I don't know. I mean, I really dug these cars. Every one is a classic.

    Ironically, these cars would be more valuable on the market if they were "concours restorations" instead of restomods, and the restorations would yet have been substantially less expensive. The cars were built to have and not to flip, however, so they were built the way that they were.

    Four of the cars were built on brand new "pro touring" rolling chassis. Only the coachwork and interiors had to be restored, and they were, meticulously. The rest of these four cars are essentially brand new.

    The Continental and Mustang, however, were unibodies like today's modern csrs, and they give a good example of why few of today's cars will ever be restored. They had to undergo what is known as a "rotisserie restoration." Very complex and expensive undercarriage fabrication was required to bring them up to snuff. The results were equally magnificent, however.

    The downside is that the cars are covered by collector car insurance which imposes limitations on their annual mileage. Conventional insurance for the whole collection would be cost prohibitive given the value of the machines.

    Thus, their daily driver is a Grand Cherokee that's left outside in the elements. Go figure.

    avatar
    Mongrel

    Posts : 1761
    Join date : 2012-12-04
    Location : The Oort Cloud

    Re: New Car Thread

    Post  Mongrel on Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:30 pm

    It would be lots of fun to have the money to buy some cool old cars and have them resto-modded. However, none of those on your list would be on mine. The only Lincoln that would make mine would be the 1957 Continental Mark II purely for aesthetic reasons. Another would be a 1955 Chrysler 300 which was the first really cool car my father bought new. No Thunderbirds would be on my list since they were designed and marketed to women when they first came out. The Corvette was the American two-seater for the males but my favorite years are 1962 and 1967 and both of those could be on my list. As for old station wagons, nothing is as cool as a two-door Chevy Nomad. Make mine a '56. As for a 1986 Lincoln Town Car, that's something I would be something I'd expect to see doing daily driving somewhere where English is not regularly spoken and the currency is not a dollar of any sort and it would probably have a meter and be painted yellow or bright blue.
    avatar
    jmtbkr

    Posts : 358
    Join date : 2012-12-05
    Location : LawnGuylund/Palm Beach Gardens

    Re: New Car Thread

    Post  jmtbkr on Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:08 pm

    '63 Corvette split window I love you that's the only one on that list I would wish for.
    avatar
    jt1135

    Posts : 441
    Join date : 2012-12-05
    Location : Middle of Nowhere

    Re: New Car Thread

    Post  jt1135 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:40 pm

    Mongrel wrote:It would be lots of fun to have the money to buy some cool old cars and have them resto-modded. However, none of those on your list would be on mine. The only Lincoln that would make mine would be the 1957 Continental Mark II purely for aesthetic reasons. Another would be a 1955 Chrysler 300 which was the first really cool car my father bought new. No Thunderbirds would be on my list since they were designed and marketed to women when they first came out. The Corvette was the American two-seater for the males but my favorite years are 1962 and 1967 and both of those could be on my list. As for old station wagons, nothing is as cool as a two-door Chevy Nomad. Make mine a '56. As for a 1986 Lincoln Town Car, that's something I would be something I'd expect to see doing daily driving somewhere where English is not regularly spoken and the currency is not a dollar of any sort and it would probably have a meter and be painted yellow or bright blue.

    Had a 93 Tbird and now have a 94 cougar. Independent 4 wheel suspension, rear wheel drive and didn't look to bad. Mine were both 3.8's but they did make them both with 302's or the Super Coupe with a super charged 3.8. When the cougar takes a shit I will look for another 93 or 94 cougar or tbird. Bill Elliot set the taladega record with a late 80's tbird which don't mean much except it was a ford and not a piece of shit chevy. Plus the Tbird got a no bullshit 30 MPG on the open road.
    avatar
    12pierogi

    Posts : 357
    Join date : 2012-12-05
    Location : Lake effect snowland

    Re: New Car Thread

    Post  12pierogi on Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:15 pm

    I got one of those Lincoln's sitting at the shop, if the owner doesn't do something soon, I'm calling the scrap yard. It's pretty clean and low miles with the 5,0.
    I'm not a fan of the Mustang, though a GT 500kr Shelby convertible, even a clone could sit in my garage.
    I did like the 67 Corvette with the 427 tripower.
    A woody! Really
    I wake up with that problem.
    My dad had a 56 T-bird did nothing for me.

    A buddy of mines buddy just dumped some of his collection. One was a resto modded Challenger convertible with viper engine and trans, disc brake, inboard independent rear suspension, custom everything. He had a ton in that car.
    He sold his wife's 70 Cuda 340, 4 speed convertible numbers matching car. Guess which one brought the big bucks?
    He also sold his Challenger u code 440, 4 speed numbers matching.
    He kept a Dodge dart with a Indy cylinder head 700 horse motor 4 speed car.
    He bought a 69 340 barracuda with a rare mod top option all original. I went and got it here, and got it ready to go to Denver. It was the gayest option ever with flowers all over the vinyl roof and interior, seats, door panels.

    I made an offer on a Challenger convertible 440 sixpack, automatic Dana 60 car, not numbers matching, but nice. I'll see how hard up he is, as non original, non numbers matching cars are still down.
    I was hoping Dodge would make a new convertible Challenger with the srt option, six speed, 6.1 hemi I'd be all over that like stink.
    A buddy I ran into at the post office, said he's bringing his new zl1 Camaro by for me to beat on. I think it's 560 horse, but he breaths on everything he's got. He said it will break the rear tire loose at 80 mph.

    One of the coolest sleepers I drove was 68 sport fury gt with a 440 super commando and 4 speed Dana 60 and 3.54 gears. I could make the speedo bury, and spin the tires on the 3-4 shift. It had the biggest production disc brakes at the time, cop wheels with dog dish hubcaps, and hitch, and cb antenna. That car buried so many muscle cars, it was supposed to never leave the circle, a buddy of mine, my brother or me. I can't stand my brother sometimes.
    Galen Govier the authority on mopars said he's never seen a Sport fury gt with a 440, 4 speed option, and it was probably one of one, B5 blue, white vinyl top fastback, white interior with buckets seats, console, factory tach, barn find. Hadn't run in years. We put a Holley 850 double pumper, and replaced the distributor with a vertex magneto. Damn that car was quick.



    Last edited by 12pierogi on Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:05 pm; edited 2 times in total
    avatar
    12pierogi

    Posts : 357
    Join date : 2012-12-05
    Location : Lake effect snowland

    Re: New Car Thread

    Post  12pierogi on Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:38 pm

    jt1135 wrote:
    Mongrel wrote:It would be lots of fun to have the money to buy some cool old cars and have them resto-modded. However, none of those on your list would be on mine. The only Lincoln that would make mine would be the 1957 Continental Mark II purely for aesthetic reasons. Another would be a 1955 Chrysler 300 which was the first really cool car my father bought new. No Thunderbirds would be on my list since they were designed and marketed to women when they first came out. The Corvette was the American two-seater for the males but my favorite years are 1962 and 1967 and both of those could be on my list. As for old station wagons, nothing is as cool as a two-door Chevy Nomad. Make mine a '56. As for a 1986 Lincoln Town Car, that's something I would be something I'd expect to see doing daily driving somewhere where English is not regularly spoken and the currency is not a dollar of any sort and it would probably have a meter and be painted yellow or bright blue.

    Had a 93 Tbird and now have a 94 cougar. Independent 4 wheel suspension, rear wheel drive and didn't look to bad. Mine were both 3.8's but they did make them both with 302's or the Super Coupe with a super charged 3.8. When the cougar takes a shit I will look for another 93 or 94 cougar or tbird. Bill Elliot set the taladega record with a late 80's tbird which don't mean much except it was a ford and not a piece of shit chevy. Plus the Tbird got a no bullshit 30 MPG on the open road.

    I had a 95 T-bird lipstick red with the 4.6 v8 it always pulled posi, and beat a ford lightning truck 3 times in a row. I only owned it a couple months, and sold it. Bought a new truck I needed more than a car. It was one of the prettiest T-birds I think.
    avatar
    jt1135

    Posts : 441
    Join date : 2012-12-05
    Location : Middle of Nowhere

    Re: New Car Thread

    Post  jt1135 on Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:35 am

    Been watching Fast N Loud on the Discovery Channel which put a thought in my head. If a person is going to buy a new car for say, 35 or 40 grand why not get an older one that has been updated with better suspension, brakes and steering like the Gas Monkey Garage does to cars? Still an everyday car but with more class and individuality.
    avatar
    12pierogi

    Posts : 357
    Join date : 2012-12-05
    Location : Lake effect snowland

    Re: New Car Thread

    Post  12pierogi on Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:02 am

    jt1135 wrote:Been watching Fast N Loud on the Discovery Channel which put a thought in my head. If a person is going to buy a new car for say, 35 or 40 grand why not get an older one that has been updated with better suspension, brakes and steering like the Gas Monkey Garage does to cars? Still an everyday car but with more class and individuality.

    Back when my dad was alive, he passed in 93, avid car collector, mainly euro exotics, he went to Brazil on a vacation.
    He claimed they had brand new Ford Falcons with late model drivetrains, updated everything but the body panels were pure 60s Falcon. Among others, they must have bought the dyes to stamp the panels. He claimed they had late model suspension as well.
    avatar
    Mongrel

    Posts : 1761
    Join date : 2012-12-04
    Location : The Oort Cloud

    Re: New Car Thread

    Post  Mongrel on Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:46 am

    Back in 1983, I had just totalled my 1978 BMW 530i and was looking for new cars. A friend of mine was a salesman at a local Ford store and let me have his demo for a weekend. Brand new '83 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe. This sled had a 2.3 litre four cylinder Mustang motor that was turbo-charged with a decent five speed manual transmission. Now in anything that heavy, I would normally have preferred a big V-8 but the turbo boost profile let you drive this T-Bird like a little econobox by short shifting and keeping the revs down. When you needed heavy acceleration, you just shifted down a gear or three and burried the gas pedal and things happended like real quick. Since the four banger weighed lots less than the V-8 5.0's that came in other model Birds, this thing handled pretty good, too. I remember coming back from the airport early one morning on the Beltway in heavy rain and enticing some Yuppie filth in a three-series BMW to a little race to and through an off-ramp with a 180 degree sweeper merge. Since the T-Bird was new and had beefy Goodyears with almost all their tread, I was able to come into the corner around 60 (marked 25 mph), nail the brakes to tap the rear end out, downshift to second, bury the throttle and leave the Beemer in the mist an eighth of a mile behind in about three seconds. Of course I was about a c.c.h. from nailing the guardrail and I think I recall shitting my pants just a bit.
    avatar
    12pierogi

    Posts : 357
    Join date : 2012-12-05
    Location : Lake effect snowland

    Re: New Car Thread

    Post  12pierogi on Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:49 pm

    This is to cool. A brand new Ford Falcon from Argentina.


    avatar
    jt1135

    Posts : 441
    Join date : 2012-12-05
    Location : Middle of Nowhere

    Re: New Car Thread

    Post  jt1135 on Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:23 pm

    Mongrel, the ex mother in law is coming to Minnesota from the eastern shore to visit and since I get along great with her thinking about having her bring me a bushel of crabs. What are they going for? Thought about some eyesters but remembered no r in june so they are out of season, right?
    avatar
    trombettista_vecchio

    Posts : 268
    Join date : 2012-12-15

    Re: New Car Thread

    Post  trombettista_vecchio on Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:36 am

    Mongrel wrote:It would be lots of fun to have the money to buy some cool old cars and have them resto-modded. However, none of those on your list would be on mine. The only Lincoln that would make mine would be the 1957 Continental Mark II purely for aesthetic reasons.

    I liked both the Lincolns a lot, but would have also wanted a 1950 Lincoln Cosmopolitan which was one of my favorites.

    The Continental MkII would also be on my list--one of the most beautiful American cars ever, I think--but technically not a Lincoln. In 1956 and 1957, Continental was a separate division of FoMoCo, just to build that one car that was intended to be a Rolls Royce competitor and priced accordingly. Then they shut that down to open the even more ill-fated Edsel Division. If Edsel hadn't been followed by the highly successful Mustang, Ford would have been lucky to survive as a truck company.


    Disagree about the tri-five Thunderbirds. Macho crap notwithstanding, the Dusk Rose (pink)one was my favorite. They wildly outsold 55, 56, and 57 Corvettes and would have been far superior cars except the Y-Block wasn't as good a motor as the SBC. The Windsor (SBF) motor needed to come out a couple of generations sooner instead of the Y-Block and the FE. With modern 8-stack Inglese or Hilborn efi, it blows the newer modular away. Pushrods rule!

    The Split Window was missing the unique '63 hood. Because of the 9-liter behemouth under the hood, it had a 1967 hood which made room for the efi.

    My Mopar representative, if I were so blessed, would be the 1957/58 Chrysler Dual Ghia rather than the 300. I was tempted to buy Frank Sinatra's when it was up for sale for $65,000, but restomodding it would have taken another hundred grand. Out of my league.

    So that's it as far as American heavy metal goes: I'd like the cars I actually saw plus a '50 Lincoln Cosmopolitan, a '57 Continental MkII, a'57 Chrysler Dual Ghia, and maybe a Gen I Corvette to go with the Gen II. Of course, if I think about it, I'd come up with even more.

    avatar
    corythepagan

    Posts : 18
    Join date : 2013-06-18

    Re: New Car Thread

    Post  corythepagan on Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:19 pm

    From 1969 through 2011, I built oval track, drag race, road race, and racing marine engines for motorsports competitors throughout the Northeast and occasionally beyond.  Building successful competition engines is challenging work, but it’s much more about precision work and patience than it is about creativity.  The various racing sanctioning bodies impose strict rules as to what an engine builder can and cannot do in building an engine for any particular racing application.

    Far more fun is building an engine for a very high end street rod project.  This isn’t California, and these builds do not come around often enough to create a sustaining business by themselves.  Still, creating a customer satisfying combination of dynamometer pull numbers and useable street manners is as much art as science; and if we’re being candid, I’ve been pretty good at it.

    Watts Race Cars of Southern New Hampshire is still operating and is in a similar situation. Watts fabricates racing chassis, but also pro touring class chassis for high end restomods.  I will concede that race chassis builders have the most daunting task in motorsports.  They must create something that will not only go very fast but will also keep the driver alive after he or she commits the inevitable screw up.  Even when fate smiles on the driver, however, these mishaps have the potential to transform the ill-fated car's body, chassis, and drivetrain to very expensive toast--the three of them together as a team.  Catholics might be reminded of bread and wine instantly transforming into the body and blood of Christ.

    (Note: for non car buffs, a “restomod” is a restored vintage automobile that retains its overall vintage appearance but is highly modified, upgraded, and modernized in terms of its mechanicals. “Pro touring chassis ” is a term used to describe a highly sophisticated chassis designed with grand touring in mind. “Pro street chassis,” on the other hand, describes more of a drag race chassis fabricated for a street car. The latter perform better at the stop light grand prix than they do on winding roads.)

    Only a few miles from Watts is Gautreau’s Auto Restoration.  Gautreau’s does accurate “concours” restoration of vintage show and collector cars, but when work schedule permits, they can be enticed to do a little custom work for street rod builds as well.  For insiders, they even do expert collision repairs, but most insurance companies won’t cover their prices.
     
    What all this is coming to is that Watts, Gautreau’s, and I have collaborated in building some of the nicest custom street machines to grace the roads of New England.  Now, in my retirement, an obscene percentage of my net worth is tied up in the six of those that comprise my personal collection. 
     
    1957 Thunderbird roadster (Dusk Rose)
    1962 Corvette roadster, “327 fuelie” (Tuxedo Black)
    1962 Corvette roadster, “aluminum block 409” (Honduras Maroon)
    1962 Lincoln Continental sedan (Primrose Yellow)
    1962 Lincoln Continetal convertible (Wimbledon White)
    1963 Corvette split window coupe, aluminum block 427 (General Sherman Blue)

    My taste doesn't run that far differently from that of the original poster.
    avatar
    trombettista_vecchio

    Posts : 268
    Join date : 2012-12-15

    Re: New Car Thread

    Post  trombettista_vecchio on Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:08 pm

    Cory, I'm very intrigued by the 1962 Corvette, presumably the maroon one used as your avatar, with the 409 engine.

    The 327 engine made its debut in the 1962 Corvette, but thanks to the Beach Boys, it was not Chevrolet's glamour powerplant that year.  That title went to the 409 (6.7 liter) engine that went only into Impalas.  The cast iron 409 might have destroyed the 1962's Corvette's handling, just like the cast iron 396 destroyed the 1965's, but teenybopper Boomers like myself all dreamed of imaginary 409 Corvettes.

    With an aluminum block version, you've made that dream come true.  And with modern efi, it can still be a fuelie, too.

    By the way, did you get your user name from the blues band, Cory & the Pagans?  I know them.
    avatar
    Lorenzzo

    Posts : 672
    Join date : 2012-12-05
    Location : Park City, UT

    Re: New Car Thread

    Post  Lorenzzo on Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:35 pm

    I did business with someone from Southern NH who in the '80-s built ocean going racers for drug smugglers.  Don't know if the two worlds connect.  Around 10 years ago I rode with him off Plum Island in one of his builds.  That thing sliced right through chop at crazy speed although I remember the gas bill for the trip being shocking. 

    What kind of mpg did you get with the engines you built?  If an engine is truly special, no matter the use, it should get decent mileage.
    avatar
    corythepagan

    Posts : 18
    Join date : 2013-06-18

    Re: New Car Thread

    Post  corythepagan on Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:14 pm

    Lorenzzo wrote:I did business with someone from Southern NH who in the '80-s built ocean going racers for drug smugglers.  Don't know if the two worlds connect.  Around 10 years ago I rode with him off Plum Island in one of his builds.  That thing sliced right through chop at crazy speed although I remember the gas bill for the trip being shocking. 

    What kind of mpg did you get with the engines you built?  If an engine is truly special, no matter the use, it should get decent mileage. 





    I don't know why, but I can't get my cursor out of the quote box.  I and not Lorenzzo with 2 zs  am saying this. 

    Considering their completely unnecessary large displacement, the engines are fuel efficient.  High performance engines breathe exceptionally well and that's efficient.  However, the way performance engines are driven is usually not efficient.  Thus, reasonable mileage is not always to be expected.

    High powered boat engines burn incredible amounts of fuel.  They don't have wheels seeking traction on hard surfasces. The have props or water jets trying to push them through heavy water. It's unbelievably hard work, so in normal circumstances, boats don't try to go too fast.  Going fast in a boat is a very expensive proposition.  

    As for Cory, the bandleader of "Cory and the Pagans," our dads were cousins. Nobody copied the name, but we did happen upon it the same way.
    avatar
    Mongrel

    Posts : 1761
    Join date : 2012-12-04
    Location : The Oort Cloud

    Re: New Car Thread

    Post  Mongrel on Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:56 pm

    jt1135 wrote:Mongrel, the ex mother in law is coming to Minnesota from the eastern shore to visit and since I get along great with her thinking about having her bring me a bushel of crabs.  What are they going for?  Thought about some eyesters but remembered no r in june so they are out of season, right?


    I don't eat crabs anymore due to my dietary regimen but I understand that they are very expensive this season due to the abnormally cold and wet spring. Except maybe on the Shore where they catch the damn things and then mark them up horrendously for those Marylanders living west of the Chesapeake Bay who they have nicknamed "chicken neckers" after the yuppy practice of using chicken necks to catch their crabs.
    avatar
    Mongrel

    Posts : 1761
    Join date : 2012-12-04
    Location : The Oort Cloud

    Re: New Car Thread

    Post  Mongrel on Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:03 pm

    trombettista_vecchio wrote:Cory, I'm very intrigued by the 1962 Corvette, presumably the maroon one used as your avatar, with the 409 engine.

    The 327 engine made its debut in the 1962 Corvette, but thanks to the Beach Boys, it was not Chevrolet's glamour powerplant that year.  That title went to the 409 (6.7 liter) engine that went only into Impalas.  The cast iron 409 might have destroyed the 1962's Corvette's handling, just like the cast iron 396 destroyed the 1965's, but teenybopper Boomers like myself all dreamed of imaginary 409 Corvettes.

    With an aluminum block version, you've made that dream come true.  And with modern efi, it can still be a fuelie, too.

    By the way, did you get your user name from the blues band, Cory & the Pagans?  I know them.


    My best friend's older brother bought a 1958 Corvette around 1963 that the previous owner had installed a duel quad 409 in. This car had a very close ration 4 speed and the rear was either a 4:56 or 4:89 and the top end came around 7,000 in 4th gear reading 110 mph. Now the previous owner also tightened up the suspension a good bit with big sway bars, heavy coils, and wider steel wheels and large tires which lowered the car several inches below stock ride height. The net effect was a veritable rocket ship that cornered better than the best sports cars of the day. This was the only car I've been in that I could not reach the dashboard as the owner's younger brother went through all four gears almost to readline really banging the gears. By the time we graduated in high school in 1965, his older brother sold the Vette to buy another go-fast. He got $1,600 for it as I recall.
    avatar
    corythepagan

    Posts : 18
    Join date : 2013-06-18

    Re: New Car Thread

    Post  corythepagan on Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:42 pm

    The dual quad 409 of the early sixties met the then magic number of one horsepower per cubic inch.  It was a very good motor, but being based on the old 348 truck engine, it was not as modern as the 396-427-454-502 that replaced it--the famous BBC rat motor.

    Old timers might remember that Chevys of that era had no oil fill caps on the valve covers.  Oil fill tubes on all the old Chevrolet motors went right through the intake manifolds.  Modern multiport efi manifolds, even when developed for those specific engines, have NO oil fill tubes. NO nice valve covers for the W-head  have oil fill caps either.   If you want multiport efi on a W-head engine, you've got to drill oil fills on valve covers not designed to have them, and they look like crap.

    I had to build carbureted race engines for most classes of competition except some alcohol ones, but in more recent years, I was loathe to ever build a carbureted street rod engine.  Multiport efi is just too good once the engine builder stops being too technophobic  to master it.  Five of my cars have multiport efi, and one of those five, the little Thunderbird, has eight stack multiport efi.    (Imagine trying to run Hilborn type injection on a street car before sequential fire electronics--you'd have to set idle at 3000 rpm!) 

    The one without multiport efi is the 409, actually 509 in its build displacement.  It's the old oil fill dilemna. But it's still got throttle body (or wet manifold)  efi.
    It's got dual quad throttle bodies, in fact,  that make it look like an original carbureted 409.  

    After efi, the next biggest improvement in street performance pushrod engines is the hydraulic roller camshafts which make solid flat tappet cams of yesteryear seem like a nightmare.  There wasn't the valve spring metalurgy to make the high ramp lift cams of today, so performance required long open valve duration and the resulting intake/exhaust overlap. The famous Duntov 327 fuelie camshaft from back in the day made an engine on a very high end car sound like a cement mixer at idle.  Now a four hundred plus horsepower streed cruiser engine sounds very behaved at idle. 

    With efi and hydraulic rollers, you have to go extreme with the grind to get chop, although some customers I had actually wanted that on purpose.  Dumb because it destroys the manifold vacuum required for accessories and the pcv valve which is good to have, even on a hot rod engine.
    avatar
    12pierogi

    Posts : 357
    Join date : 2012-12-05
    Location : Lake effect snowland

    Re: New Car Thread

    Post  12pierogi on Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:35 am

    corythepagan wrote:The dual quad 409 of the early sixties met the then magic number of one horsepower per cubic inch.  It was a very good motor, but being based on the old 348 truck engine, it was not as modern as the 396-427-454-502 that replaced it--the famous BBC rat motor.

    Old timers might remember that Chevys of that era had no oil fill caps on the valve covers.  Oil fill tubes on all the old Chevrolet motors went right through the intake manifolds.  Modern multiport efi manifolds, even when developed for those specific engines, have NO oil fill tubes. NO nice valve covers for the W-head  have oil fill caps either.   If you want multiport efi on a W-head engine, you've got to drill oil fills on valve covers not designed to have them, and they look like crap.

    I had to build carbureted race engines for most classes of competition except some alcohol ones, but in more recent years, I was loathe to ever build a carbureted street rod engine.  Multiport efi is just too good once the engine builder stops being too technophobic  to master it.  Five of my cars have multiport efi, and one of those five, the little Thunderbird, has eight stack multiport efi.    (Imagine trying to run Hilborn type injection on a street car before sequential fire electronics--you'd have to set idle at 3000 rpm!) 

    The one without multiport efi is the 409, actually 509 in its build displacement.  It's the old oil fill dilemna. But it's still got throttle body (or wet manifold)  efi.
    It's got dual quad throttle bodies, in fact,  that make it look like an original carbureted 409.  

    After efi, the next biggest improvement in street performance pushrod engines is the hydraulic roller camshafts which make solid flat tappet cams of yesteryear seem like a nightmare.  There wasn't the valve spring metalurgy to make the high ramp lift cams of today, so performance required long open valve duration and the resulting intake/exhaust overlap. The famous Duntov 327 fuelie camshaft from back in the day made an engine on a very high end car sound like a cement mixer at idle.  Now a four hundred plus horsepower streed cruiser engine sounds very behaved at idle. 

    With efi and hydraulic rollers, you have to go extreme with the grind to get chop, although some customers I had actually wanted that on purpose.  Dumb because it destroys the manifold vacuum required for accessories and the pcv valve which is good to have, even on a hot rod engine.

    I worked with a race engine builder, I helped with cylinder head preparation, assembly, balancing, flow bench testing, etc. Hogan was primarily involved with the drag race community, and eventually did quite a lot of dirt track circle jerker stuff. Some hard hitting street rods occasionally. 

    I went against the grain, and stuck with the smallblock mopar stuff, passed on many a big motor, something about the volumetric efficiency of a 3.31 stroke, and a 4.04-4.100 bore just made me hard thinking about it. The idle of 312 duration and .600 lift is music to my ears. I really have no problem with edgey cars, as I work on them routinely. Did a E85 car with a 434 the other day, had to setup the suspension, as its a 4 link car. that has the potential to run low 9s possibly high 8s. The owner was scared of it, and made a couple hairy passes, he swore something was wrong, I had to explain leave a little harder on the transbrake, and hang on, and whatever you do don't lift unless your upside down. He made a 10.20 pass finally lifting at a 1000 feet. 
    Most of the people I've helped over the years have a ceiling around the 12 second range of power in a street car. They just can't handle much more.
    The younger crowd seems more acclimated about EFI cars, I admit I'm not, call me a technophobe, I have made tremendous power with a carburetor. With msd ignitions they burn the excess fuel, I love the smell of race gas, and rubber.
    I put a Challenger with a 440 sixpack together for my wife, I have the smallbock junk in a old dodge dart I've had for 20 years, that I use to run quick streetcar shootouts till low 10s wouldn't get it anymore. I put another bullit together with around 400 cubes, and some nasty heads, but I've put off dropping it in, as its to be painted again, the near 20 year old paint is looking pretty bad, and I don't want a 600 horse smallblock in it at the body shop, the 530 horse 340 is sufficient for moving the car around, and I painted the engine compartment, and jammed the car in, as I have 3 lifts, and it was easier for me to do the underneath. I just had the bodyman spray the clearcoat. If I do it, it looks like rhino lining. 
    I actually just sold a 500" 4.150 stroke mopar with some heads blowing around 340, as the temptation was there to put it in my dart. I'd probably kill myself, as I've got a knack of getting everything out of a engine.
    My dart would spin to 9,500 rpms on a good day, and that's a sweet sound with 3.5" Flowmasters.
    I could talk cars all day.

    avatar
    corythepagan

    Posts : 18
    Join date : 2013-06-18

    Re: New Car Thread

    Post  corythepagan on Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:32 am

    I'm reminded of Donnie & Marie.
    I'm a little bit "pro touring."
    12pierogi is a little bit "pro street."

    Drag racing did its share to pay me, but often at the expense of my stomach lining.

    Picture two scenarios on a dynamometer pull.

    In scene one, I'm feeding nitro-spiked alcohol to a hemi engine that I built on an antique DeSoto block, only now it has a big blower on it.
    I magnafluxed the block before prepping it, but it's from 1957.

    In scene two, I'm feeding pump gas to a cute little Windsor, built on a brand new block from Dart,  for an orthodontist who's bringing his kit-built Cobra to Lime Rock.

    In which scene do I look less nervous?
    avatar
    12pierogi

    Posts : 357
    Join date : 2012-12-05
    Location : Lake effect snowland

    Re: New Car Thread

    Post  12pierogi on Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:06 am

    If its a Windsor you have reason to be nervous. Just kidding, sort of.
    What's the de rigueur for a Windsor build these days? 
    It seems we found the Cleveland heads would bolt up, and the 2 barrel head was more than sufficient, airspeed was better probably then the 4v head, which was overkill. Some cats in Arkansas made an intake that worked.
    I'm sure these days a aftermarket head is available. Those were the days my friend, we thought they'd never end, what's that song, it's stuck in my head now.
    I'm ok with the pro touring crowd, it's a part of my business as they have to take it somewhere to get aligned, or there tubular a arms installed, drop spindles, racks, struts, springs, they build mild mannered stuff, as of course they do thousands of miles at a time, once twice a year, which is cool. More about reliability. 

    We actually did a 64 SS Chevy II that was wacked, loaded with stickers on the windshield of past pro touring events. He called the next day to tell me what a great job we did. That's what it's all about.

    The Challenger we have is built to cruise, as its front rear sway barred, hemi torsion bars, big radials, and runs a 3.23 gear this year. If you unhook the outboard carbs, it may even get 15-17 mpg. Though I must admit I reminisce of a B/SA Challenger 440 sixpak record holder, I crawled all over that car, that carried the wheels over a hundred feet. Thats the shizzle. We intend to drive the Challenger to the Mopar Nationals this year.
    avatar
    corythepagan

    Posts : 18
    Join date : 2013-06-18

    Re: New Car Thread

    Post  corythepagan on Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:27 am

    12pierogi wrote:If its a Windsor you have reason to be nervous. Just kidding, sort of.
    What's the de rigueur for a Windsor build these days? 



    I'm retired, but it's been a lot of this in Windsor/Cleveland/Clevor World.



    We think of Stu Hilborn at the dry lakes or salt flats, but he really made his nut injecting Offy champ cars.  Back then, that was the real big time.

    As you know, the big difference between Hilborn and Inglese intakes is the starting point.  Hilborn began from the starting point of  constant flow mechanical and going sequential. Inglese began from the starting point of 8-stack Weber carburetion and going dry.  With FAST, either will make a Ford run like a Rolex.


    Last edited by corythepagan on Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
    avatar
    Lorenzzo

    Posts : 672
    Join date : 2012-12-05
    Location : Park City, UT

    Re: New Car Thread

    Post  Lorenzzo on Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:48 am

    Cory, your relationship with engines is highly reminiscent of Nifty's thing with golf clubs, down to writing style.  The two of you could be very close.
    avatar
    corythepagan

    Posts : 18
    Join date : 2013-06-18

    Re: New Car Thread

    Post  corythepagan on Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:21 pm

    Nifty is an old name for the old Italian trumpet player, right?  Isn't he from the northeast too? That's what I infer browsing past posts. Maybe we're literally close. 

    My golf comment was about the US Open and Phil being a runnerup again --that's why I looked for a forum to mention it.  But now I  get to play a little, finally.  I suck, but I get to play. It's a great game, but waiting until this point in life to play more than three or four times a year with other grease monkeys doesn't bode well for ever getting non-comical.  Have you recommendations, 2Zs?

    Sponsored content

    Re: New Car Thread

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:05 am