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    Lance Armstrong...

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    Lord Helmet

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    Lance Armstrong...

    Post  Lord Helmet on Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:49 pm

    Guess he comes clean in his interview w/ Oprah? Was there ever any doubt he didnt dope? Whats the matter w/ people - just own it you dumbass. confused
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    FamousDavis
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    Re: Lance Armstrong...

    Post  FamousDavis on Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:00 pm

    I feel a little sorry for Armstrong. I completely understand how a cyclist could get caught up in that stuff and then try to keep it hidden. I can also understand why he'd try to keep it hidden till the end. Ive read that it's prevalent everywhere in cycling. So, in order to be competitive, you feel like you need to do the same thing. Of course it's not right but I can see how it would start and then continue.

    What disgusts me the most are the people who are eager to crucify him. I call it the pack mentality. They can't wait to throw insults and watch him crash and burn. They literally want him to be hurt and suffer. It's a sickness and hypocritical to the utmost degree.

    I agree that he should get it over with and probably should have done it sooner than now. It's just kind of sad.
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    Fluffy

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    Re: Lance Armstrong...

    Post  Fluffy on Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:58 am

    Shat.......I would also use steroids if my nuts werent 100% working....
    The cycling benefits come second.

    No offence intended,just a joke
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    jmtbkr

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    Re: Lance Armstrong...

    Post  jmtbkr on Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:46 am

    FamousDavis wrote:I feel a little sorry for Armstrong. I completely understand how a cyclist could get caught up in that stuff and then try to keep it hidden. I can also understand why he'd try to keep it hidden till the end. Ive read that it's prevalent everywhere in cycling. So, in order to be competitive, you feel like you need to do the same thing. Of course it's not right but I can see how it would start and then continue.

    What disgusts me the most are the people who are eager to crucify him. I call it the pack mentality. They can't wait to throw insults and watch him crash and burn. They literally want him to be hurt and suffer. It's a sickness and hypocritical to the utmost degree.

    I agree that he should get it over with and probably should have done it sooner than now. It's just kind of sad.

    Soooo agree!!
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    Pky6471

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    Re: Lance Armstrong...

    Post  Pky6471 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:27 am

    FamousDavis wrote: I completely understand how a cyclist could get caught up in that stuff and then try to keep it hidden. I can also understand why he'd try to keep it hidden till the end.

    It's called GREEDY....Most of the times, what we try to hide will come out and bite us in the a$$... unless we live in the Communist regime. What hurts is his foundation and young kids who have been looking up to him
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    Lord Helmet

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    Re: Lance Armstrong...

    Post  Lord Helmet on Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:21 am

    FamousDavis wrote:I feel a little sorry for Armstrong. I completely understand how a cyclist could get caught up in that stuff and then try to keep it hidden. I can also understand why he'd try to keep it hidden till the end. Ive read that it's prevalent everywhere in cycling. So, in order to be competitive, you feel like you need to do the same thing. Of course it's not right but I can see how it would start and then continue.

    What disgusts me the most are the people who are eager to crucify him. I call it the pack mentality. They can't wait to throw insults and watch him crash and burn. They literally want him to be hurt and suffer. It's a sickness and hypocritical to the utmost degree. I agree that he should get it over with and probably should have done it sooner than now. It's just kind of sad.

    Amen to this. The media whores will be going all out now.
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    Mongrel

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    Re: Lance Armstrong...

    Post  Mongrel on Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:28 am

    I think we would all be better off with a little more mature attitude. In the old days of thoroughbred horse racing, trainers would administer drugs to their steeds to staunch lung bleeding and other ailments that would hinder their horse's performance down the stretch. Eventually, the horse racing world acknowledged the widespread use of these drugs and formalized protocol by affixing letters after the horse's name on the card denoting which drug the horse was racing on. So in a sport like bicycle racing, simply put a letter after each contestant's name indicating what he's on. Since everyone's doing it, no big deal. Now if those substances give you nut cancer or whatever, don't come crying to the taxpayers to pay for your nut-ectomy or whatever.
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    Horseballs

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    Re: Lance Armstrong...

    Post  Horseballs on Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:40 am

    I lean towards Lance being a total dickwad. It wasn't just the cheating, but the level of bullying and shadiness he employed to keep up the lie. He tried to donate a bunch of cash to the USADA so they would drop their investigation. He basically destroyed the careers of other riders.
    Even though his foundation did a lot of good, he basically got filthy rich off a lie. I know in America we didn't get the whole story, but I know that Euros knew he was a dirty cheat for years and years. Then again, cycling isn't really a popular sport. It's more like a way to exercise, which we all know Americans don't like.
    If it came out that a competitive eater was cheating, there would be riots in the streets.
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    Mongrel

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    Re: Lance Armstrong...

    Post  Mongrel on Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:51 am

    Where the guy chose to make his public confession tells me a lot about him. Instead of ESPN or "60 Minutes" he goes on an Oprah Winfrey show? What a fairy.
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    Poe4soul

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    Re: Lance Armstrong...

    Post  Poe4soul on Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:11 am

    Horseballs wrote:I lean towards Lance being a total dickwad. It wasn't just the cheating, but the level of bullying and shadiness he employed to keep up the lie. He tried to donate a bunch of cash to the USADA so they would drop their investigation. He basically destroyed the careers of other riders.
    Even though his foundation did a lot of good, he basically got filthy rich off a lie. I know in America we didn't get the whole story, but I know that Euros knew he was a dirty cheat for years and years. Then again, cycling isn't really a popular sport. It's more like a way to exercise, which we all know Americans don't like.
    If it came out that a competitive eater was cheating, there would be riots in the streets.

    I was basically going to post similar about lance. I don't mind that he made his own decisions about doping but pressuring other teammates to dope wasn't cool. I hope his Oprah interview has a high payoff. It might be his last time in spot light.

    I read an article quoting a poll that 1:20 high school boys take steroids. That's pretty high when you consider that many high school boys don't play sports, let alone at a competitive level. I guess my point is that the doping has gone all the way down to the high school level. That is the cause and effect of allowing pro athletes to take PED's.
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    Homeslice

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    Re: Lance Armstrong...

    Post  Homeslice on Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:18 am

    I agree with Horesy and Poefer. Fuck Lance Armstrong.
    It's a possibility that rampant roid use could have caused his cancer in the first place. Plus, people want to give him a pass because of all his charity work, but is it really that noble to rally against a disease that you didn't give a damn about until you got it? I know his foundation raised a lot of money for cancer and that's great, but cheating is cheating and it's for weak, fundamentally dishonest people.

    "But everyone was doing it. He had to dope to compete!"

    No. He could have blown the whistle on the cheaters, or simply got out of competitive biking because it was overrun by scumbags. The only grey area here is created by people who like to intellectualize their flaws.
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    Horseballs

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    Re: Lance Armstrong...

    Post  Horseballs on Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:45 am

    Homeslice wrote:I agree with Horesy and Poefer. Fuck Lance Armstrong.
    It's a possibility that rampant roid use could have caused his cancer in the first place. Plus, people want to give him a pass because of all his charity work, but is it really that noble to rally against a disease that you didn't give a damn about until you got it? I know his foundation raised a lot of money for cancer and that's great, but cheating is cheating and it's for weak, fundamentally dishonest people.

    "But everyone was doing it. He had to dope to compete!"

    No. He could have blown the whistle on the cheaters, or simply got out of competitive biking because it was overrun by scumbags. The only grey area here is created by people who like to intellectualize their flaws.
    I always just assumed that sitting on a bike seat caused him to get balls cancer. Like how riding on a tractor can give you gonorrheah.
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    Homeslice

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    Re: Lance Armstrong...

    Post  Homeslice on Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:50 am

    Horseballs wrote:
    Homeslice wrote:I agree with Horesy and Poefer. Fuck Lance Armstrong.
    It's a possibility that rampant roid use could have caused his cancer in the first place. Plus, people want to give him a pass because of all his charity work, but is it really that noble to rally against a disease that you didn't give a damn about until you got it? I know his foundation raised a lot of money for cancer and that's great, but cheating is cheating and it's for weak, fundamentally dishonest people.

    "But everyone was doing it. He had to dope to compete!"

    No. He could have blown the whistle on the cheaters, or simply got out of competitive biking because it was overrun by scumbags. The only grey area here is created by people who like to intellectualize their flaws.
    I always just assumed that sitting on a bike seat caused him to get balls cancer. Like how riding on a tractor can give you gonorrheah.
    You gotta put a paper protect-o on that tractor seat. Of course, no one gives a rip about raising money for gonorrhea until they contract it themselves.
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    FamousDavis
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    Re: Lance Armstrong...

    Post  FamousDavis on Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:06 pm

    I knew guys in high school who really got into weight lifting and used steroids. This is 25 years ago. Many of them didn't play football and had no competitive reason to take the drugs. They simply wanted to get big. Personally, I thought they looked incredibly stupid. Their faces would swell and they'd achieve more of a beefy look than a toned one. Every single one of those guys is grossly overweight today. Steroids will screw you up in a million ways.

    I agree with some of you that Lance is probably a conceited arse who took advantage of others.

    What's really odd is the whole apology thing. We all know it's staged and scripted on Oprah, we all know that he will dodge some questions and answer others in an "A-Rod" fashion but somehow it's still important. I don't get it. We know he lied, we know he cheated and we know he covered it up until the end. Somehow the confessional, no matter how ridiculous the circumstances and setting, gives everyone relief and allows them to move on. Something to do with a human's need for closure and the fact that a confessional doesn't only aid the person doing the confessing.
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    Kiwigolfer

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    Re: Lance Armstrong...

    Post  Kiwigolfer on Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:47 pm

    We've discussed this before and I'm firmly in the Horseballs camp. He deserves zero sympathy FD. His whole career was an orchestrated campaign of lying, cheating, subterfuge, bullying, blackmail, bribery and intimidation. He is a sociopath who was so high on his own power and success he probably believed he could actually get away with it.

    It's true they were all doping and he needed to do it to win but that doesn't excuse all the other shit that went on.

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    Poe4soul

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    Re: Lance Armstrong...

    Post  Poe4soul on Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:51 pm

    Kiwigolfer wrote:We've discussed this before and I'm firmly in the Horseballs camp. He deserves zero sympathy FD. His whole career was an orchestrated campaign of lying, cheating, subterfuge, bullying, blackmail, bribery and intimidation. He is a sociopath who was so high on his own power and success he probably believed he could actually get away with it.

    It's true they were all doping and he needed to do it to win but that doesn't excuse all the other shit that went on.


    The only caveat is all the information has not yet come out. It will be interesting to see if he throws someone(s) higher up the food chain under the bus. I predict it's going to happen or he'll be a kept man with very few monetary problems.
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    Mongrel

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    Re: Lance Armstrong...

    Post  Mongrel on Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:22 pm

    Poe4soul wrote:
    Kiwigolfer wrote:We've discussed this before and I'm firmly in the Horseballs camp. He deserves zero sympathy FD. His whole career was an orchestrated campaign of lying, cheating, subterfuge, bullying, blackmail, bribery and intimidation. He is a sociopath who was so high on his own power and success he probably believed he could actually get away with it.

    It's true they were all doping and he needed to do it to win but that doesn't excuse all the other shit that went on.


    The only caveat is all the information has not yet come out. It will be interesting to see if he throws someone(s) higher up the food chain under the bus. I predict it's going to happen or he'll be a kept man with very few monetary problems.

    It is ironic to me that some professional sports stars have been indicted for lying about using PEDs. There should be a Congressional Investigation. But I guess since that sport's Major takes place in France, no one really gives a flying fuk.
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    FamousDavis
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    Re: Lance Armstrong...

    Post  FamousDavis on Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:14 pm

    Mostly German wrote:
    Poe4soul wrote:
    Kiwigolfer wrote:We've discussed this before and I'm firmly in the Horseballs camp. He deserves zero sympathy FD. His whole career was an orchestrated campaign of lying, cheating, subterfuge, bullying, blackmail, bribery and intimidation. He is a sociopath who was so high on his own power and success he probably believed he could actually get away with it.

    It's true they were all doping and he needed to do it to win but that doesn't excuse all the other shit that went on.


    The only caveat is all the information has not yet come out. It will be interesting to see if he throws someone(s) higher up the food chain under the bus. I predict it's going to happen or he'll be a kept man with very few monetary problems.

    It is ironic to me that some professional sports stars have been indicted for lying about using PEDs. There should be a Congressional Investigation. But I guess since that sport's Major takes place in France, no one really gives a flying fuk.

    I've never really been friends with any bicycle enthusiasts. Not sure if that's the correct terminology.

    Actually, I used to be friends with this guy who got into cycling during college. Odd, because it seemed like his weight gain and cycling both started around the same time. If you ever converse with a cyclist, one thing is for certain, at some point in time you will get into an argument with them about the merits of cycling vs. running. You would think you're debating the existence of a higher power.

    Whenever I'd go over to his house he'd be watching either American Flyers or Breaking Away. For those of you who don't know, Breaking Away was Dennis Quaid's first big movie, even though he's only a supporting actor. The hero in the movie went on to act in a truly depraved role in Fade to Black.

    The other movie, American Flyers, was Kevin Costner's first big role in a movie. More important, Rae Dawn Chong is in the movie...someone I find very attractive.

    I digress. Both movies are so-so and I'd always end up sitting there and watching it for the 100th time, all the while wondering why my friend was getting fatter whilst clearly infatuated with the so-called sport of cycling.

    If a poll was completed, I would guess than 50% of cyclists gave up the sport after one month. After purchasing thousands of dollars worth of bikes, helmets, spandex and leg shavers they realized that it's incredibly boring and time consuming. All they had left were 3 year subscriptions to Cyclist and Bicycle Babes.

    I think I'll stick with golf.

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    Pky6471

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    Could Pro Golfers Dope to hit 500 yds drives ???

    Post  Pky6471 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:10 pm

    What do you guys/ girls/ AC-DC think ?
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    Kiwigolfer

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    Re: Lance Armstrong...

    Post  Kiwigolfer on Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:15 pm

    Poe4soul wrote:
    Kiwigolfer wrote:We've discussed this before and I'm firmly in the Horseballs camp. He deserves zero sympathy FD. His whole career was an orchestrated campaign of lying, cheating, subterfuge, bullying, blackmail, bribery and intimidation. He is a sociopath who was so high on his own power and success he probably believed he could actually get away with it.

    It's true they were all doping and he needed to do it to win but that doesn't excuse all the other shit that went on.


    The only caveat is all the information has not yet come out. It will be interesting to see if he throws someone(s) higher up the food chain under the bus. I predict it's going to happen or he'll be a kept man with very few monetary problems.

    I think you are right.
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    Fluffy

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    Re: Lance Armstrong...

    Post  Fluffy on Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:11 am

    You guys must remember you get a whole different categories of substance abuse...

    On the anti-doping list your Vitamin B6/B12 in higher but still mcgs quantities can be considered doping...

    Cyclists normally try to obtain more red bloodcells that gives them higher endurance. and there are 4 or 5 ways of doing it. EPA,Blood Transfusion, Both Illegal, then theres the legal ways Practising in a "thin air" environment, or do what the americans do. Build a practise facility for "high altitude training" which does it naturally...
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    Pky6471

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    Re: Lance Armstrong...

    Post  Pky6471 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:47 am

    I always thought that NO ONE - normal people - could physically win it 7 times in a row... I guess I was right.

    This is what we say 'when the sh$$$t hits the fan...' , I expect more things to come out yet
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    FamousDavis
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    Re: Lance Armstrong...

    Post  FamousDavis on Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:44 pm

    What's interesting is the way we view professional atheltes. Let's take Shaquille O'Neil, for example. The guy is 7 foot 2 inches and can basically just stand there under the basket and dunk. The guy can't even make a free throw. Yet, he was considered to be a superstar and was hugely popular. There is no doubt he was a good player, even for his height. Tallness alone obviously doesn't make you a great basketball player. Still, I don't think anyone could argue that Shaq had it much easier than other guys who played Center.

    So, let's say there is another Center who is close in height to Shaq but has a much harder time putting on muscle. In order to put on the muscle, he takes whatever is necessary to do it. Later, it's found that he took banned substances and is scorned and shamed into humilitation, with all his trophies taken away. He is also sued and ruined.

    Is that fair?

    Is it fair that some golfers, like Dustin Johnson, are 6 foot 4 with incredibly athletic builds and natural talent? It seems to me that sports are best when the playing field is level. The best Superbowls occur when the two teams playing one another are fairly even in talent.

    So, as a society, we like the athlete who is naturally the best at what they do, even if they don't have to work at it. We like the one who is born with superior athleticism, superior talent and a superior physique. Yet, we scorn the ones who use drugs to get to that same level.

    In other words, is the allure of sports really about envying people with natural talent? As opposed to admiring those who had to work hard to achieve it?
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    Kiwigolfer

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    Re: Lance Armstrong...

    Post  Kiwigolfer on Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:59 pm

    You're missing the point FD. Nobody cares that he juiced to win. We all knew or suspected that all along.
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    Horseballs

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    Re: Lance Armstrong...

    Post  Horseballs on Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:20 pm

    FamousDavis wrote: It seems to me that sports are best when the playing field is level. The best Superbowls occur when the two teams playing one another are fairly even in talent.
    It may seem that way to you, but every sport is most popular when there is dominance by one player or team. Parity does not move the needle for most people.

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